Inline FabricationLee PrecisionStainLess Steel MediaTitan Reloading
MidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2ADvertise hereGraf & Sons

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 123456
Results 101 to 120 of 120

Thread: CVA Hunter in 44 Magnum

  1. #101
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by 500Linebaughbuck View Post
    Acording to Hodgdon I could shoot the 325 BTB cast boolit with 22 grains of W296 and stay under SAAMI pressures. It all boils down to the specific gun, boolit, lot of powder, lot of primers, case, temp, etc - and specific pressure recording devices - before someone can say with certainty that someone is way above pressure limits.

    Thanks for the links, but I am kind of at a loss as to what they are for? Are they meant to show me how to read pressure, or meant to show me that I cannot read pressure based on visual things? I've always just gone by the rule that you work up to max loads that are listed in reloading manuals. However, just because they list a certain weight for a max load does not mean your firearm can handle it - nor does it mean it cannot handle more.

    I'll still state the fact that when you search for data from people who have loaded the Lee C430-310 in the 44 magnum with W296/H110, you will find that the most common load is 21gr - 21.5gr. I know that not all guns are built to handle the same load, but if it was a massive over pressure situation then I am pretty sure we would have many people warning of such - not listing it for the load they use.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-Lee-C430-310

    Now, maybe it is over SAAMI spec pressure in my particular case. Who knows for sure? I have followed standard loading proceedures working up to it - I did not just load 21 grains into a case and go at it. It is the only charge that groups the boolits good, even though the groups move time to time.

  2. #102
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    598
    FWIW, I NEVER use a load that someone else says they use. If I don't find it in a published manual (or mfg website) then I won't use it.

    I still remember a guy who had trouble with a Dan Wesson .357mag. It wasn't shooting well. The fired cases just dropped out and no primer issues or stretched cases. But, when the gunsmith dropped a round in the chamber it just kinda rattled around. When asked he said he loaded it the same way his buddy did. Just put in a scoop of Bullseye and seat the bullets. When asked what size scoop he said he didn't know, but, if filled up the case nicely. The way overloaded rounds bulged all 6 chambers (with no failures of cases or chambers). Yes, he was very lucky.

    Moral of story, cases frequently do not show signs of over pressure and someone else's loads may be dangerous.

  3. #103
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    FWIW, I NEVER use a load that someone else says they use. If I don't find it in a published manual (or mfg website) then I won't use it.

    I still remember a guy who had trouble with a Dan Wesson .357mag. It wasn't shooting well. The fired cases just dropped out and no primer issues or stretched cases. But, when the gunsmith dropped a round in the chamber it just kinda rattled around. When asked he said he loaded it the same way his buddy did. Just put in a scoop of Bullseye and seat the bullets. When asked what size scoop he said he didn't know, but, if filled up the case nicely. The way overloaded rounds bulged all 6 chambers (with no failures of cases or chambers). Yes, he was very lucky.

    Moral of story, cases frequently do not show signs of over pressure and someone else's loads may be dangerous.
    I’m confused. You never use a load someone else has posted they use? Or do you mean you have never used one just because they say they use it?

    Do you consider 21 grains for a 310 grain boolit over published data according to Hodgdon?

    I’m at a loss really. Numerous loading data often conflicts with each other a bullet manufacturer often has data that conflicts with powder manufacturers. Which do you go by?

  4. #104
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    64
    Soo... Have we tried this bad boy with factory loads?

  5. #105
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    598
    Quote Originally Posted by newton View Post
    I’m confused. You never use a load someone else has posted they use? Or do you mean you have never used one just because they say they use it?

    Do you consider 21 grains for a 310 grain boolit over published data according to Hodgdon?

    I’m at a loss really. Numerous loading data often conflicts with each other a bullet manufacturer often has data that conflicts with powder manufacturers. Which do you go by?
    I only use published loads from a mfg. I don't care what other people use for loads and certainly won't use them if they are over the published data.

    Yes, there can be conflicts. If, eg, Hogdon lists a hotter load than Nosler, I will probably go with Nosler if using a Nosler bullet. There are differences in bullets.

    There is no reason to go over published data. If you need more power get a different cartridge.

    IF I ever wanted to experiment with loads I'd invest in a good strain gauge system and then 'calibrate' it using a variety of factory loads. That's the ONLY way to know if you are going over limits.

  6. #106
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    I only use published loads from a mfg. I don't care what other people use for loads and certainly won't use them if they are over the published data.

    Yes, there can be conflicts. If, eg, Hogdon lists a hotter load than Nosler, I will probably go with Nosler if using a Nosler bullet. There are differences in bullets.

    There is no reason to go over published data. If you need more power get a different cartridge.

    IF I ever wanted to experiment with loads I'd invest in a good strain gauge system and then 'calibrate' it using a variety of factory loads. That's the ONLY way to know if you are going over limits.
    Have you ever loaded a boolit/bullet that was not published in a loading manual? I know of many Lee molds that don’t have published data for a particular cartridge. Just wondering if you have ever run into that situation or if you only use boolit molds that have published data.

  7. #107
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagnerwerks View Post
    Soo... Have we tried this bad boy with factory loads?
    No. Gun is in the process of being sold. I’m not spending any more money on it. I have no doubt that either factory loads would work, or if they didn’t that CVA would fix the gun so they did. Either way, it’s not what I wanted the gun for. I am 100% satisfied with CVA and their service, just don’t have a use for this rifle all things considered.

  8. #108
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    64
    Thanks for the update.

  9. #109
    Boolit Master OlDeuce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    692
    WoW............That's to bad.......I had High Hopes for your .44 CVA..............Would the Thompson Contender be a better choice ?? Bit more money !
    But it's all workable

    Ol Deuce
    Do the Best with What you have !

  10. #110
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by OlDeuce View Post
    WoW............That's to bad.......I had High Hopes for your .44 CVA..............Would the Thompson Contender be a better choice ?? Bit more money !
    But it's all workable

    Ol Deuce
    I am sure the TC is built to a higher standard, but as weird as it sounds I could never develop a like for them. I never owned one, but I know people who do and I just never got bit by that bug. I tried holding/shooting theirs and it just never gave me the desire to own one. Probably a good thing. lol

  11. #111
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    598
    When using Lee bullets I use Lee loading data.

    If the bullet is made from a mold by someone else I will look up a similar bullet, eg a Lyman or Lee and use that data.

    Again, no, just because someone on a forum says, I use this bullet and this powder charge and it works great, means NOTHING. As in almost useless data point. I say almost only because they did not blow up that gun. It does not mean it will not damage my gun. Heck, it might have damaged their gun, they just don't know it.

    I really do hope you have not damaged yours.

  12. #112
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    598
    So, will you tell whoever wants to buy it that you may have damaged the gun by firing heavy hand loads in it?

  13. #113
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Here are my thoughts about why I am getting rid of the gun. It is not because I hate it. It's not because I am upset with CVA. It's not because I do not think it can shoot accurately.

    The reason I have decided to sell it is that I often make impulse decisions when it comes to purchasing firearms, and this was one of those purchases. I had not thoroughly thought out what I actually was wanting and how this gun would fit the bill when I bought it. Durring my last trip to deer camp, I had finally made the descision that I wanted to get a big bore(44 or 45 caliber) firearm to hunt with this next deer season. I have also been itching to try my hand at hunting with a pistol. I often thought about it in the past, but was always stopped short of doing it because I always thought I might 'need' to take long shots(ones over 100 yards) and did not want to have to deal with rainbow trajectorys and iron sights at distances greater than 50 yards.

    But sitting in the deer stand a few months ago I realized that in all my years of hunting I might have shot, or had the opportunity of shooting, less than a handful of deer at yardages greater than 100 yards. I originally thought about getting a 45 colt lever gun to compliment the short barreled Ruger I carry in the woods. Then I thought why not just hunt with the blackhawk itself, but the short barrel does not afford a very good sight aquisition, and while I am ok with close shots(under 50 yards) I know that longer shots needed better sights for my eyes.

    When I started looking at guns I did not have the cash on hand to buy the lever gun, and for sure not a pistol that easily accepts scopes, but I did have enough to buy the CVA. So, being like a little kid, I made my impulse buy. Fast forward to now, and I do have the cash(or soon will), and have decided to go after my long thought out desire to pistol hunt, so I will be buying a Ruger Blackhawk Hunter and practicing with it for the upcoming season. Sad thing is, I'm taking a loss with this gun where as if I had just held out I would already have the funds to buy the Ruger.

    So, the reason I am putting an end to owning the CVA is simply that in order for me to continue with it I am going to have to spend more money on it. While I could send it back to CVA as it is right now, I would not feel right about it without trying factory ammunition. In order to try factory ammunition, I am going to have to spend money that I would much rather put toward the purchase of what I had originally desired to hunt with.

    In the end, I can definitely see myself owning another CVA down the road(other than the muzzleloader I currently have and love), but this particular rifle would be better served to free up funds for my true desire. That's the long and the short of it.

  14. #114
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    So, will you tell whoever wants to buy it that you may have damaged the gun by firing heavy hand loads in it?
    Are you serious or just trying to rouse a fight?

    I have talked to several people so far. I have told them the exact reason I am selling it. It's only your opinion that I may have damaged the gun by firing the hand loads I made - that were within powder manufacturers recommended specs.

    So no, I am not going to say "the gun may be damaged" any more than I will say "the gun may shoot one hole groups". If I had intentionally loaded rounds I knew were way above spec - according to all the data that is out there - then yes, I would not lie to them. If they ask the exact loads I used then I will tell them exactly what I loaded and shot. I do not believe I shot any loads that damaged the gun, so I am not going to lie to someone and tell them that.
    Last edited by newton; 01-26-2018 at 12:20 PM.

  15. #115
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    When using Lee bullets I use Lee loading data.

    If the bullet is made from a mold by someone else I will look up a similar bullet, eg a Lyman or Lee and use that data.

    Again, no, just because someone on a forum says, I use this bullet and this powder charge and it works great, means NOTHING. As in almost useless data point. I say almost only because they did not blow up that gun. It does not mean it will not damage my gun. Heck, it might have damaged their gun, they just don't know it.

    I really do hope you have not damaged yours.
    So then have you looked and seen that Hodgdon says for a 325 grain BTB cast boolit the max charge is 22 grains? Why would someone think that my load of 21 or 21.5 grains would be way over max and be damaging to the gun?

    I am not sure if you are aware, but Lee does not list their own loading data for the molds they have. They list others loading data. Do you have the loading data that Lee publishes for the C430-310 with W296? Does that data say that I was over on my loads?

  16. #116
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    598
    I really don't care what loads you used or why. You said your loads were high, how much depending on which load charts you chose to look at. You said the action would pop open on firing so you contacted CVA to find out what was wrong with it. You also complained about 'drifting' groups which you say might be cause by a loose action.

    So, is it still 'broken' or was it user error? Do you still think it is too 'loose' to shoot well?

    I understand you wanting to sell it, just be honest with what you did to it and why you contacted CVA about it and the performance you got from it. Including the emails from CVA asking you to shoot some specific factory ammo through it before contacting them again.

  17. #117
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    I really don't care what loads you used or why. You said your loads were high, how much depending on which load charts you chose to look at. You said the action would pop open on firing so you contacted CVA to find out what was wrong with it. You also complained about 'drifting' groups which you say might be cause by a loose action.

    So, is it still 'broken' or was it user error? Do you still think it is too 'loose' to shoot well?

    I understand you wanting to sell it, just be honest with what you did to it and why you contacted CVA about it and the performance you got from it. Including the emails from CVA asking you to shoot some specific factory ammo through it before contacting them again.
    I think you may not have read the entire thread, (which is ok), because you are really taking some things out of context and make some statements about the events that simply are not true. CVA was ready and willing to send me an RMA, they never stated I had to shoot factory ammo first. I contacted CVA for multiple reasons, not just because it was popping open. To that point, I’ll reiterate it again, just like I told the guy who bought the gun, that as long as I wiped the locking surfaces dry and made sure there was nothing on them it did not pop open.

    Is it broken? Define broken. Yes it still wiggles back and forth. Do I think it’s too loose to shoot well? Yes. I don’t think it’s right. The only way I was going to know for sure it was broke was to shoot factory ammo out of it. That was a detailed part of my conversation with him.

    I told the guy I sold the gun to everything. He wanted to know why I was selling it and I told him the chain of events. Among other things, I told him it was not accurate with my handloads and that CVA said it should shoot around 1 1/2” at 100 yards with factory ammo. I told him the specifics why I had not shot factory ammo, and that if he did shoot factory ammo and found it did not shoot good then CVA would be good about getting it fixed so it would shoot good.

    You Sir have insinuated that I’m doing something wrong(or potentially) from my handloads to my selling of the gun. I’ve always figured I had enough business of my own to deal with I didn’t need to tell others how to deal with theirs. Most people on this site look to help others not put them down. I’m not sure why you decided to hone in on me, but I’d appreciate it if you would seek to help not hurt in the future.

    Maybe you had a bad deal in the past. I can understand that. I’ve been taken advantage of also, but I’ve never intentionally hurt someone or taken advantage of them. I really appreciate those who seek to do the same.

  18. #118
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    64
    so I think that I've shown that I'm not here to argue about fault of anything. I enjoyed this thread as an intro to my next gun. I did want to point out that most mfg warranty repairs are only free to the original purchaser. That was the case for 2 used rifles I've purchased. One was a CVA. This isn't the case for all, but I just wanted to throw it out there. If you gave full disclosure, I think you were fine selling it or whatever else you want to do with it but the buyer would likely not get the same service as you.

  19. #119
    Boolit Master newton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,643
    Quote Originally Posted by Wagnerwerks View Post
    so I think that I've shown that I'm not here to argue about fault of anything. I enjoyed this thread as an intro to my next gun. I did want to point out that most mfg warranty repairs are only free to the original purchaser. That was the case for 2 used rifles I've purchased. One was a CVA. This isn't the case for all, but I just wanted to throw it out there. If you gave full disclosure, I think you were fine selling it or whatever else you want to do with it but the buyer would likely not get the same service as you.
    I appriciate it Wagnerwerks.

    Turns out you are correct, I assumed CVA extended their lifetime warranty, but I just looked it up and sure enough, it is only to the original purchaser. This will be good to know for future buys. I did not tell him that it did, but I did tell him I had been in contact with them and how they said to shoot factory ammo then contact them again if it did not shoot good. He may or may not have took that as me saying they had a warranty extension to the next owner. I do believe that CVA will make the gun right regardless of who the owner is - but now I can see that it is not a free fix for the person who buys them used. Well, that is an opinion though - who knows if they may fix a used gun for free or not. I still believe that CVA provides good customer service and will stand behind their product.

    Hopefully, if it happens that factory ammo won't shoot well for him, that CVA will at least stand behind their product with minimal cost to him. He got a good deal on the gun - I took a pretty good lose on it.

    I think the downfall of this thread is that I was thinking/talking out loud about my opinions/feelings and such. That, in turn, got interpreted by some to be professional views I suppose. My feelings don't mean squat but to me. I was just sharing. I am not a professional with regards to break open actions.

    The whole thing that seems to be overlooked(not necessarily by you) is that CVA did not seem to be concerned about anything except the fact that I had not shot factory ammo. I told CVA about everything and they had no concern about the loose action, barrel popping open, and innacuracy - pointing to the fact that in their "professional" opinion it more than likely could ALL be a condition of me shooting handloads. I even pushed the issue, making sure they were talking about ALL of my concerns, not just some.

    Here is a direct quote of me pushing the issue;

    Also, will factory ammunition make the action lock up tight and not wiggle? Will the action not open up when I fire factory ammunition?
    If they honestly thought that the gun was unsafe, I HIGHLY doubt they would recommend I go out and buy some heavy factory loads to shoot in it. My "feeling" of the loose action causing inacuracy is just that - my opinion. They obviously thought otherwise.
    Last edited by newton; 01-27-2018 at 11:48 AM. Reason: clarity

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by newton View Post
    I hear ya, but I do have my reasons for wanting to go bigger - I just hope that I don't find that it shoots better with the lighter ones. I know that a 240 grain boolit is all I "need" for most of my hunting, but I got the gun specifically because of the twist rate in order to shoot the heavier ones.

    It was a tuff call because I almost opted for the 45-70. However, I liked the efficiency of the smaller pistol case.

    Its good to hear that this gun will shoot good with the 240's though.
    I shoot lead slugs for economical reasons as I like to shoot a lot. And my CVA hunter despised the 240 grainers unless maybe I was pushing them too fast? Switch to the Missouri bullet company's 300 grain truncated cone cast bullets and now it will do an inch group at 50 yards and hit an 8" AR 500 target every time at at 100 yards. Never really tried for groups at 100 yards. I use 18.5 grains of W296. I ended up trowing a tasco 1.5 to 4.5 scope on it. Not a bad rig for the money.

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 123456

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check