Another Range Story of Stupidity

[Down South]

I went to the the rifle range a couple weeks ago to make a few test shots and verify my scope was still on Zero as I had a rifle hunt to make last weekend.
I was acting range officer while I was there. As I was waiting on my barrel to cool down between shots a group of three guys and two women came and set up beside me.
I called the range cold so they could put a few targets at the 100 yd berm.

Once they set up and I called the range hot again, I noticed they were shooting three different rifles from two benches. One of the first things that disturbed me was I heard one of the guys say to one of the others "Hey you shot my target instead of yours".

What really disturbed me was the two guys shooting different rifles from the same bench is when one said "What Happened?"
He had a fail to extract. They knocked the case out of the chamber with a cleaning rod, then I heard one say, you blew the primer.
I decided that I'd better see what was going on.
As I was approaching their bench, sure enough, I saw a spent primer laying beside their rest.
I picked up the primer, examined it and noticed it appeared to have a very hard firing pin strike to almost rupture.
The guys were looking at the case and another case fired from the same rifle.
I told them to hand me the cases.

Instantly I saw the problem. They had fired a 6.5 creedmoor in a Win 308 rifle. I looked on their bench and sure enough, there was a box of 6.5 CM and 308 Win sitting next to each other.

As acting RO I commenced to chewing butt for having the two different caliber ammo sitting next to each other on the bench and for general stupidity of not paying attention to what they were doing.

I then delegated my RO duties to another shooter, packed up my gear and left.

[skeettx]

Whew, Good call
Mike

[rking22]

Good thing it was a 308 and not 243, might be a tight fit but the STOOPID are determined!

[RogerDat]

We may have to issue you a citation for interference with natural selection. So one question did any of them thank you for finding out why they were on the way to winning a Darwin award and allowing them to avoid that situation? Backside chewed vs. face full of rifle bolt. Hmmm? Yep thank you seems in order.

[MUSTANG]

Perhaps they were new shooters and are in need of a Good Mentor. I usually try and establish if they are morons, or uneducated neophytes. My behavior follows which path is indicated.

[10-x]

Prime example of why one needs to be Very careful who they shoot with.

[georgerkahn]

A couple of decades ago, I was presented the challenge of determining WHY a fellow could not keep on target with his new-to-him .30-30 Winchester 1894. I had it in my hands for less than a minute when I asked for the ammunition he had been using. Yup! His ".30-30" was in fact a .32 Winchester Special. He assumed, from the looks of the lever gun in his hands, and having no knowledge it came in other calibers, bought and shot the .30WCF ammunition in it. Quite a nice fellow, we were indeed both happy no harm was done. I inquired, too, what if his was a .30WCF, and he attempted shooting .32WS in it? He immediately "saw the light", and I'm reasonable certain it was an experience we both felt good thereafter -- I was able to help a fellow shooter, and, he vowed to examine the engraved caliber/ammo requirement on any and every firearm he'd ever, in future, shoot. In my experience, a friendly conversation with a smile is almost always more productive than "chewing butt ". What happened, happened; one cannot rewind the videotape of life -- sometimes a little friendly education goes a long way.
geo

[fatelk]

There is a lot of new gun owners out there with little or no training, scares me a little. Back in the day everyone had hunter's safety training young, nowadays not so much.

Some firm instruction is certainly in order, especially if you're responsible as RO. Personally I think an old-fashioned butt chewing is best reserved for those who really need is. A friend of mine was absentmindedly handling an unloaded handgun on a cold range a while back. He was in the wrong and he knew it as soon as it was pointed out, but another shooter jumped him like a drill sergeant in boot camp, with a genuine butt chewing. My friend was seriously embarrassed and angry, hung his head as he packed up and left. The other guy was right to call him on it, but seriously wrong in the way he did it.

[abunaitoo]

Once in a while we have found .308 straight wall cases.
Seems they shot .308 in a 30.06 Garand.
Never a good idea to have different calibers open on the same bench.
Friend almost died when a rifle exploded next to him.
Tiny piece of metal almost cut an artery.
Spent a week in the hospital.
I think it was .308 in a .270.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Ow.

I have a pair of basically identical Rem 700s but they're 223 and 243, so a round from one SHOULDN'T fire in the other; You can bet I stow the ammo same time I stow the rifle though, if both are with me. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that Murphy isn't out to get you! Clear markings on them helps.

[rondog]

Another reason I love my club, with 25 separate ranges there's rarely a need to shoot near anyone else, unless you're wanting to shoot from 100+ to 600yds. And there's plenty of benches there to spread out.

There's also a separate range out to 500 for lead-only rifles that's rarely used. Getting kinda fond of that one, since it's covered, shaded, out of the wind and near the clubhouse. And I've been shooting mostly leverguns w/cast bullets.

[pill bug]

Yeah, lots of stupid people out there. But times being what they are, we now have a new kind of stupid. That's the kind were the guy is stupid and also crazy. Might be something to think about before acting the drill sergeant and giving a bigtime butt chewing. Embarrassed and angry + stupid and crazy + He's got a gun. Never a good combination!

[Thin Man]

With many new handguns owners taking advantage of expanded right to carry opportunities, I see a lot of this.

In one case a man brought me his 9mm because it would not fire or function reliably. A quick look at the pistol told the story. He went to a local shop that was running a sale and bought his pistol, then came straight to our range. He loaded the magazine and had all the above problems and came to me. When I showed him the rollmarks on the slide that declared the pistol to be chambered for 40 S&W he almost fainted, then got mad. The brand and general model of this pistol is offered in different calibers and the clerk at the store where he bought it did not closely check his merchandise when he picked up a new merchandise box from their stock. The owner went straight back to the seller to get this issue resolved.

More recently, we had 2 ladies on the range who had just bought their first handguns, same make-model in 380 caliber. Both pistols were brought to me completely locked up. The slides would not move and the magazines would not release from the frames. First things first, I confirmed the chambers were empty. I removed the grips on the first pistol and used a pin punch through the magazine to remove the mag from the frame. Inside the top of the mag was one (1) round of .380 ammo, inserted backward. After a good laugh I found the second pistol was tied up exactly like the first. There are many things I could say about lack of prior exposure to firearms, absence of training, etc., etc. but you get the point. These ladies were given a demonstration in correct magazine loading by a range officer, then decided they would wait until another day for their first live fire attempt. Everyone in the store was grateful for that decision.

[FISH4BUGS]

Was it REALLY necessary to "chew their butt" as opposed to educating them as Geo said? Maybe you exaggerated the talk a bit in the retelling of the story? That's OK, but I would submit that if you really "chewed their butt" that is why RO's are not particularly liked at most ranges. ....just sayin'
I had a couple of people bump firing a pistol next to me. I told them nicely but firmly that is very much against the rules of the club and if someone turned them in they would be expelled from the club. They apologized and said they won't do it again. Everyone had a nice afternoon at the range after that.
My grandma always said you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[richhodg66]

I shoot mostly on my own place now, but the range I shot at for ten years or so and still occasionally go to and sometimes RSO for has always impressed me that guys can run a safe range without being Nazis about it. Generally, the people that come out are pretty receptive to well presented advice too.

I used to shoot on the Fort Bliss Rod and Gun club which at the time, the ranges were unsupervised and we had some real winners show up. I also have occasionally shot on state ranges that were completely unsupervised and anybody could show up and shoot, one about 60 miles from here and one in Missouri when I was stationed at Fort Leavenworth. If I couldn't shake loose from work and go when nobody else was gonna be there, I just wouldn't go. There are some seriously stupid people out there and I don't want to have to watch them the whole time I'm there.

[Down South]

I think most have misunderstood my definition of butt chewing. I never raised my voice or acted like a drill sergeant.
I did point out the danger of having different calibers of ammo sitting side by side on the bench as they had just witnessed.
I also explained that they needed to pay more attention to detail.
I can honestly say that I don't believe either of the gentlemens feelings were hurt.

[buckwheatpaul]

As a RSO I believe you did the proper thing and you can only chew....but getting out of DODGE was a good thing as well unless you evicted them from the line....glad no one was injured......

[fatelk]

Sounds like you did exactly the right thing, in that case.

There's really no excuse for using the wrong ammo. I just don't understand people who go buy their first gun and don't bother with learning the basics of safety and function before trying it out. Don't they understand that it's a deadly weapon, not a new toy?

Only one time have I ever shot the wrong ammo. I brought both a .380 and a 9mm Makarov to the range, and fired a magazine full of .380 through the Makarov. No harm done but I was really embarrassed.

Shooting carries more responsibility that something like golf, for example. Hitting the ball the wrong way is an "oops". Accidentally filling your outboard motor with diesel is an "oops". Accidentally firing your gun pointed the wrong way towards another person is a lot more than just an "oops". New gun owners need to fully understand the seriousness of what they're doing. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more gun accidents with all the new owners in recent years, so most of them must take it seriously.

[RogerDat]

There are folks who are new and make an honest mistake due to lack of knowledge, there are people who know better and slip up just as there are good drivers who might forget to use a turn signal or some other minor but potentially dangerous mistake at one time or another. Most of these folks will be grateful for some assistance or a reminder. Some might be annoyed if the tone of it is demeaning or insulting but most folks I think would rather be warned about an unsafe action or condition than not.

There are however a minority group that are not only willfully ignorant but adamantly sure that whatever they are doing is perfectly fine, not your business, or someone else's fault if it has consequences. Since I am self aware of how little patience I have with this sort I tend to just say what needs saying in as brief a manner as possible and walk away. How far away depends on how stupid the activity is. I met a fellow missing parts of fingers with a couple more sewed back on who was buying reloading supplies at a gun show. He was suing the gun maker because the gun blew up and he learned to reload from a pro and had been doing it for decades so his bullet exploding had to be a gun defect. He also stated that any gun should be able to handle a double charge and the powder he was using wouldn't fit more than a double charge in even if he had screwed up. I think it was a derringer, don't recall the caliber but the explosion ripped fingers off and destroyed some other fingers. So major force and total failure by gun. I asked what about a squib load blocking the barrel? He stated that never happens to him and he used an expensive Dillon press. I moved on but took a long enough look to make sure I will know if I find myself on a line next to him so I can move.

I try to help folks when I can but more than willing to move on when it is clear no point to talking about it.

[Airman Basic]

I've wanted a 7-08 for years but didn't because I don't trust myself! I have a couple of 243s which i shoot regularly. Also, in my cheapness, I reform an inexhaustible supply of military .308 to feed the 243s. I can just see myself mixing up the two. Think it would do more than fireform a 243? Haven't tried a 7mm in a 243 chamber. Hopefully wouldn't work.