9.6x53 Lancaster

[eric123]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-hunting-2017/

Interesting new caliber. Would be great cast bullet caliber in a Mosin IMO...

[Earlwb]

That is certainly fascinating. But the curious thing is that the rifle uses a oval bore in the barrel. That oval bore is twisted like they do for rifling. The bullet gets squeezed into a oval shape in the bore and comes out oval in shape too. I would be interested in how accurate the rifle and cartridge is. Since it is based on the 7.62x54R Russian cartridge, one could make their own cartridges as needed too. But it looks like the cartridges the Russians make will all be steel cased and berdan primed though.

[ammohead]

One of the articles I found states that Russia has unusual laws for owning rifled firearms. The oval bore starts out round and the oval rifling/twist is only for a short distance at the muzzle end. This catagorizes the firearm as a smoothbore and is easier for common folk to own.

[vzerone]

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The original Lancaster oval bore dates from the 1850s, and was used for everything from 68-pounder artillery to Lancaster's four-barrelled cartridge pistol. Perhaps the best-known is the Royal Engineers carbine which otherwise resembled the Enfield rifle musket. The argument that it lessens air friction is surely false, as the bullet starts out with the rifling engraving moving in line with the airflow. It surely held black powder fouling less, but had the reputation of being adequate in accuracy, but not as good as conventional rifling.

The advantages have about vanished in the time of smokeless powder, but I doubt if it does appreciable harm. It would be easy to make with button rifling. Other than in jurisdictions which give it some legal point, I can't see it as much but an advertising gimmick. The 9.6mm cartridge on the 7.62x54R should be extremely good for black powder use, though. It calls for a little extra care in handloading, since the steel cases could rob you of extraction effort or case measurement as a sign that you are overdoing it. I wouldn't call that nearly as important as it would be if you were necking down to a small calibre.

[texassako]

Hmm, and I have a bubba'd Russian contract 1895 that needs a rebore.

[ammohead]

With a .4055" diameter boolit, performance should be quite similar to the 405 JES. Finding someone stateside to rebore your 1895 to a .4055 groove diameter may prove difficult. Is the 348 win not doable for a rebore?

[Earlwb]

With a .4055" diameter boolit, performance should be quite similar to the 405 JES. Finding someone stateside to rebore your 1895 to a .4055 groove diameter may prove difficult. Is the 348 win not doable for a rebore?

I think that the barrel would wind up too thin to bore out. You would need to rebarrel it.

[TAC14]

Good luck finding someone who can bore you an oval bore rifle.

[Earlwb]

I would likely go for conventional rifling here in the USA. But maybe one could make a button rifling tool for using a press to force in the oval shape. But maybe hammer forging over a mandrel is the way to go though.

Another issue might be finding bullets. It uses 10.3mm bullets which are about .4055 inches. The only bullets I find offhand are .406 size lead bullets. No jacketed bullets.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

With a .4055" diameter boolit, performance should be quite similar to the 405 JES. Finding someonlie stateside to rebore your 1895 to a .4055 groove a diameter may prove difficult. Is the 348 win not doable for a rebore?

I think you are probably right about the barrel diameter. It takes very little thickness to contain rifle pressure once you are well down the bore, and in practice a ⅝in. barrel liner would probably do on its own. But that isn't the same as feeling comfortable with steel-foil wrapped liner, and an accidental bump could break the seal and admit moisture in the joint.

People are more likely to be considering the cartridge than the oval bore. So why should it be for .405 bullets? Shilen make a black powder blank, or used to (but in chrome-moly steel) for the .40 Marlins, with .403 groove diameter, and there is even a chance that standard sizing of this cartridge (if there is a standard) and a smaller expander button would do for sizes under .403. Or vice versa for .406 or more.

Who are you going to disappoint, in generations yet unborn? People who buy off-the-peg ammunition for a rifle aimed at a mainly Russian market niche?

[northmn]

If one wanted to re-bore an old Russian military rifle, of which we have lots floating around now it might be an option. However I have not seen many old Nagants that are worth re-boring cost wise. I gather the 7.62 Russian cartridge has seen about every form of wildcatting our 30-06 has, in Finland. I consider it an interesting cartridge in an informational way but cannot see any particular reason to get one as we are already inundated with other cartridges. Although the 40 calibers, once popular in black powder days, are now pretty rare in the US. We seemed to have embraced the 375's as a similar bore size. The old 405 Winchester could use a rebirth or the 444 Marlin necked down to the 40 with decent twist rate.

DEP

[texassako]

I mistakenly believed the bullet was 9.6mm, not 10.3mm. The barrel sounds like a paradox gun actually, with an oval bore at the muzzle instead of a short bit of rifling. Problem is the cartridge is not straight enough for shot(except maybe a special capsule) to take advantage of that feature.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If one wanted to re-bore an old Russian military rifle, of which we have lots floating around now it might be an option. However I have not seen many old Nagants that are worth re-boring cost wise. I gather the 7.62 Russian cartridge has seen about every form of wildcatting our 30-06 has, in Finland. I consider it an interesting cartridge in an informational way but cannot see any particular reason to get one as we are already inundated with other cartridges. Although the 40 calibers, once popular in black powder days, are now pretty rare in the US. We seemed to have embraced the 375's as a similar bore size. The old 405 Winchester could use a rebirth or the 444 Marlin necked down to the 40 with decent twist rate.

DEP

I think you are right for a Mosin-Nagant. People do make pretty good sporting rifles of those, but you don't get after-market triggers, safeties and scope mounts like you do for the Mausers, Springfield and American Enfields. It takes a lot of work, and there are b
better routes to a pretty good sporting rifle.

But I think texassako was talking about an abused Russian contract 1895 Winchester, which a whole new ball game. That was what I thought would justify a new barrel, and a good one. Imagine if you could ask Mr. Browning whether he would want it done.

[RPRNY]

35 Russian. Plentiful bullet selection.

[Earlwb]

Yeah, I think rebarreling a Mosin Nagant is the way to go. But really one can choose a caliber that has readily available bullets for reloading for it too. The 9.6x53R Lancaster doesn't have much of anything here in the USA for that caliber in the way of bullets. They may never sell it here either. Since there is sanctions going on with Russia and the western countries, we may never see this here anyway.

But these guys have been rebarreling Mosins and people have been customizing the heck out of them too.
http://www.biggorillagunworks.com/mo...barreling.html