Marginal hunting loads????

[TXGunNut]

35 Whelen a marginal hunting load? Funniest thing I've heard all day.

[MT Gianni]

Kind of reminds me of a story an ol' Montana buddy told me one time.......

Three out of state elk hunters were in National Forest woods in Montana. They stepped on everything that made noise and the old man heard them coming..... As they walked into the old man's camp they jumped as they finally saw him.

"You see any bull elk?" One asked the old man.
"Nope", He replied.
"You huntin' elk?" The younger of the group asked.
"Naw.... Take one if I see him."

The younger one showed the old man his new gun. It was a then newly introduced .350 Remington Magnum. The younger one was proud of his gun as he explained its attributes.
"Kinda like a .35 Whelen from what you are sayin'." The old man spoke....
"NO! Way more power than that old thing!"
"Yah don't say?" The oldster said.
"Yeah if you can hit him! That thing shoots about as flat as a rainbow!" The more senior city slicker teased holding his .300 Weatherby high in the air.
"How far yah think you can shoot in these woods?" The old man grinned.

Seeing the old man had irritated his father some the younger asked the old man, "What you shooting?"
"It's leanin' gainst the tree to your left"

The three out of staters looked over..... The irritated one laughed as he looked at the octagon barreled lever action Winchester and said: "What is that? An old .44-40?"
"Naw..... Ain't that old! It's a Model 94. The old man answered.
"So you hunt elk with a .30-30?" The Weatherby shooter said sarcastically.
"No..... It ain't a .30-30. It's a .25-35."
Weatherby laughed until he had tears in his eyes. "You can't kill an elk with a .25-35! What's the matter with you?"
The old man just looked at him. "How many elk have you killed with your fancy gun?"
"Well....... None with this gun."
"Well..... How many elk you killed all together?" The old man grinned
"Ahhh..... None. But I've killed a lot of deer!"

"Well son...... That ol' .25-35 there has killed seven elk. Seems to me you really don't know what will kill an elk do you?"


"Marginal" could describe some hunters as well right along with an opinion about a "Marginal Load".

Eutectic

That story could describe any one of the four Copenhaver Brothers. Howard was the best know of the Ovando boys and he guided for many years with a 25-35 as his only gun. I spent an afternoon visiting with him leaning against the rug of a Grizzly bear he shot with it.

[texasnative46]

TXGunNut,

Every time that I hear some "self-identified expert" who states firmly that the .35 Whelen isn't enough gun for most any big game, I just have to laugh. = The .35 Whelen is about the same power, with equivalent bullets & powder charges, as my treasured 9.3x62 Mauser is & that has efficiently taken every sort of game on Planet Earth for over a CENTURY.
(Offhand, I can think of NO game animal that cannot be taken by a 270-300 grain bullet at 2,000-2,400 FPS.)

The many elephants, Cape Buffalo, BIG bears, big cats, crocodiles, moose, American Bison & other tough game animals didn't care that they were quickly KILLED by an old & (as one "expert" recently said) "nearly obsolete caliber". = Nobody can kill an animal deader than dead.

just my OPINION, tex

[smkummer]

I believe many have just rehashed what they read from all the common gun rags of the 70’s and 80’s. I still remember an old recommendation that a cartridge have at least 1000 lbs. of energy at 100 yards to be adequate for deer, of which that 1/2 that energy and good shot placement does wonderful. With that said, I remember helping a friend who wanted to use his 22-250 for small Texas deer and I talked him into loading speer’s 70 grain hunting bullet. 6 shots and 6 kills of which he didn’t limit to just head shots.

I have never shot a 35 whelen but just the mention of it makes my 57 year old right shoulder twinge.

[kobeinu]

Awww, man. Who'd a thunk I had a bunch of marginal rifles. Now what?!

Tell my wife in order to explain the new purchases....of probably equally marginal specimens.

[Harter66]

Some time back I posted a thread that had cut and paste sections from different states required minimum cartridges for big game .
Maine names the 25 auto for deer .
Georgia allows a hafted spear for some big game .
Nevada requires a 24+ plus caliber with a case 1.280 or longer for pistols and 22 cal and larger with a 2" oal and retains 1000 ftlb at 100 yd , for big game . Technically the Remington 300 HP 45-70 from a ported Guide Gun is below the required 1000@100 while a Hot loaded 223 55 gr SPBT just makes the cut in a 20" rifle . Your 256 Win mag is also ok in a 10" contender or a 4" SAA for Rocky Mountain Elk , desert big horn and mountian goat .

The laws we grow up with are paramount to the decisions we make about cartridges . I've always liked the 7×57 myself and I figure if ol' Kiamojaro Bell can kill way over 100 elephants with one it ought to be plenty to stop anything in north America . Maybe a 175 FMJRN isn't the best bullet but it should be plenty of cartridge .

[Texas by God]

My .54 BP pistol has ballistics akin to a hail stone but somehow will drop a close range deer decisively.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[mart]

There are truly very few "marginal" cartridges. There are however, a great many marginal hunters.

[texasnative46]

mart,

100% SPOT ON. = At the last State sponsored "Hunter's Training Course" that I helped with, we had several people who could not consistently hit a 12" CIRCLE with their own rifle at 100M.
(Two of the students missed the 4x4 foot plywood, upon which the targets were mounted, several times too.)

A person who shoots that poorly wouldn't be helped by having a .600 Nitro Express to "hunt" with.

yours, tex

[starmac]

One of the members on the Alaska outdoors forum has a signature line that reads,
If you can't kill it with a 30/06, HIDE.

[Texas by God]

One of the members on the Alaska outdoors forum has a signature line that reads,
If you can't kill it with a 30/06, HIDE.

So true. Lots of folks don't realize how powerful the old '06 is.

[mart]

So true. Lots of folks don't realize how powerful the old '06 is.

Nor do they realize how completely inadequate a 338 WM or 375 H&H is in the hands of some one who cannot shoot them well.

[GEOMETRIC]

O.K., so here is my take. I can kill a deer just as cleanly with my muzzle loader fireing a patched round ball as I can with my .300 Win. Mag. but the .300 will kill deer under conditions that I wouldn't even attempt a shot with a black powder gun. That doesn't mean I can't kill that same deer with the muzzle loader, it just means I have to be a better hunter & get within the effective range of the BP gun. So why do I shoot muzzle loaders? Well, because it's more fun & it injects more sport into the hunt, but I like my .300 too. That is more rifle than I need & my .45-70 is better on tough critters under 100 yds. I bought my first .300 when I was a kid & had visions of hunting in Canada, which never happened except for birds & waterfowl. I got to be a very good shot with my M 77 Ruger but mostly load .308 equivalent loads in it because full .300 Win. loads are overkill for most of my hunting. Like Col. Atkins one said, "just because it will hold two hats full of powder doesn't mean you have to fill it up". The trend these days seems to be to fill the air with bullets & hope something runs into one. Quite a large number of people that shoot magnum rifles are so afraid of them they can't hit anything. On the flip side of the coin, you can kill big critters with .22 caliber rifles but personally, I have more respect for the game I hunt. You can also kill Canada geese with a .410 but I don't think you will bag many in the real world. As for the .35 Whelen, anybody that says the .35 Whelen isn't enough gun for elk clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. It is one of the finest big game rifles ever conceived which is not far behind the .375 H&H magnum. Indeed, Jack O'Conner's wife killed two very large bull elephants with a .30-06.
Last but not least, the measure of the effectiveness of a rifle is not what you did with it once upon a time but what you can expect it to do under the conditions that you use it.

[Chev. William]

All good comments.
However there is always the History of What has successfully killed what most call the 'Apex Predator' the Human 'Animal'. On the small end: .25ACP = well over 4000 recorded Kills in the WW2 era alone.
Chev. William

[6pt-sika]

YES!! And the older I get the smaller recoil guns are my go to guns
Mike

Yep I had Ruger #1H rifles in 416 Rem Mag and 458 Win Mag but they have found their way to others . Still have the 375 H&H Mag 1H but I'm not sure why LOL's !

[missionary5155]

Trying to swat a Russian T-72 with an shoulder fired rifle. Much to marginal.

[GEOMETRIC]

mart,
In regard to left handed guns. You have to shoot what works for you. Should you be left handed, most everything else is backwards!

[jaysouth]

Such statements and opinions are often expressed by those who know a lot of wrong stuff.

You mean people who read gun magazines and believe every word from every 'expert'?

[Chev. William]

Trying to swat a Russian T-72 with an shoulder fired rifle. Much to marginal.

I believe the Germans found their Shoulder fired Antitank weapons did work if fired at suitably close ranges.
Their problems were to survive long enough to get that close to the tanks.
Laughing,
Chev. William

[popper]

Tankgewehr M1918 - saw one a few years back. Glad I didn't have to carry it.