Puzzling day at the range

[Eddie2002]

Took my CVA .50 caliber Hawkins and the .58 caliber Buffalo Hunter out to the range today. Started easy at 25 yds just to make sure they were sighted in. Both hit the bullseye with no problems so I moved over to the 50yd range and that's where the accuracy went to heck. My load for the CVA was 55 grains 3F with a .490 PRB and pillow ticking lubed with bore butter. I worked up to 65 grains and the accuracy got a little better but it ended up shooting 8 inches high.
The .58 Buffalo Hunter shot ok ( hit the paper) with a 320 grain minnie ball over 50 grains of 3F but when I switched over to a .570 PRB I couldn't hit paper. I tried working up to 75 grains of 3F but still didn't have any luck. Got tired of wasting powder so I called it a day.
I don't know if I sabotaged myself because I tried some 50/50 bees wax olive oil as a hard lube early on in the day with both rifles. I didn't notice any fouling, loading was easy all day long. Any thoughts?
Thanks

[triggerhappy243]

when shooting for groups at different distances, my focus is not on hitting the bullseye, it is hitting in the same spot. my target frame is big. 24 wide and 48 tall. I focus on holding the front bead in the same spot every shot.

[Edward]

when shooting for groups at different distances, my focus is not on hitting the bullseye, it is hitting in the same spot. my target frame is big. 24 wide and 48 tall. I focus on holding the front bead in the same spot every shot.

Second that !

[Eddie2002]

I was using a standard sized target, guess I'll use a bigger piece of paper for the target next time. I'm wondering if I need a thicker patch to grab the rifling better. The range I was at doesn't let you in front of the benches even when the range goes cold so I couldn't inspect any used patches. Feel like I'm fumbling around in the dark.

[waksupi]

Clean your barrel well, go to a different lube, and report back.

[scattershot]

It’s been a while, but as I recall the Buffalo Hunter I had had very shallow rifling, and would shoot a bullet OK, but not a patched ball. Try a slightly bigger ball with a thinner patch. Sometimes these things can drive you nuts.

Good luck!

[mooman76]

Like stated, try another lube. Also it's best to make your own patches. It's cheaper and you have more control. When you buy prelubed patches you don't know how old they are and you are stuck with whatever lube they used. Old prelubed patches break down over time. Did you swab? Some lubes need swabbing after a few shots or accuracy goes south quick. I like spit patch myself. No swabbing needed and I can shoot all day. I use Pyrodex and have for years without issues.

[Eddie2002]

I've just started cutting my own patches out of pillow ticking, the store bought prelubed ones have gone bad and tore when I tried to load them. I didn't swab between shots with either gun and know that the Buffalo Hunter prefers minnie balls over PRB's but wanted to give it a try anyways.
"Clean your barrel well, go to a different lube, and report back." Will do along with trying thicker patches.
I'm more interested in getting the .50 caliber CVA Hawkins shooting PRB's right now since it is legal at the shoot I'm competing in next month. I'll scrub the bore with a brush and try a different lube. Should I soak the patch with lube or just moisten it? Dumb question but just would like to know.

[Wayne Smith]

Not a dumb question, but only you can answer it. Try it both ways.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

hard beeswax = nothing but trouble. Melt that **** out of the bore, scrub it good and then use a good patch lube.

I've built many CVA Hawken rifles and the go to loads are as followed:

50cal .490" round ball, .54cal .530" round ball, .018 - .020 patch, 70-80gr 2fg or 70 - 80gr 3fg Goex ( pyrodex P - RS work great as well )

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

[mooman76]

You don't usually want to saturate the patch with lube but some lubes are thin and meant to dry. Some use Balistall, (sp) a water based machine lube and they mix with water 6 to1 give or take. They let it dry and shoot it that way or shoot it on a patch wet but not dripping wet. Just gotta find what your gun likes.

[triggerhappy243]

what kind of range will not allow you to walk down range to retrieve patches.............. let alone your targets? is this an indoor range?

[triggerhappy243]

50cal .490" round ball, .54cal .530" round ball, .018 - .020 patch, 70-80gr 2fg or 70 - 80gr 3fg Goex ( pyrodex P - RS work great as well )[/QUOTE]

Jon, .18-.20 thick is too thick for all of my rifles............... and possibly for the o.p.

[dondiego]

I've just started cutting my own patches out of pillow ticking, the store bought prelubed ones have gone bad and tore when I tried to load them. I didn't swab between shots with either gun and know that the Buffalo Hunter prefers minnie balls over PRB's but wanted to give it a try anyways.
"Clean your barrel well, go to a different lube, and report back." Will do along with trying thicker patches.
I'm more interested in getting the .50 caliber CVA Hawkins shooting PRB's right now since it is legal at the shoot I'm competing in next month. I'll scrub the bore with a brush and try a different lube. Should I soak the patch with lube or just moisten it? Dumb question but just would like to know.

Be careful with that brush. If it is a tight fit, it is a bear to get it to reverse the bristles and come back out!

[triggerhappy243]

Be careful with that brush. If it is a tight fit, it is a bear to get it to reverse the bristles and come back out!

twist it clockwise as you pull it out.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

50cal .490" round ball, .54cal .530" round ball, .018 - .020 patch, 70-80gr 2fg or 70 - 80gr 3fg Goex ( pyrodex P - RS work great as well )

Jon, .18-.20 thick is too thick for all of my rifles............... and possibly for the o.p.[/QUOTE]

Depends. All my CVA & Traditions rifles use that 18 and 20 thou patch perfectly. Its all about the bore condition and lube used. I can reload my .499" Traditions barrel 20+ times at the rendezvous while using my hunting patch lube. A plastic ramrod, and its a real pain. Wood or my SS rod and zero issues. That CVA Hawken barrel above, should easily take that thicker patch with no issues whatsoever.

[Eddie2002]

"what kind of range will not allow you to walk down range to retrieve patches.............. let alone your targets? is this an indoor range?" It's a county run range where you are allowed to walk down the side of the shooting area to get to the targets but you have to keep on the path and not wander off in front of the shooting benches. They have a lot of new gun owners showing up who don't have any idea of what they are doing. It's a nice range as long as you play by the rules.
I know about sticking a brush in the bore and use a home made 3/16 inch steel cleaning rod for them with a bore protector to protect the crown. Sometime it takes a good yank to get the brush moving out. Already scrubbed both bores with hot water and dishwashing soap.
I'm starting to think that my main problem was using the hard lube for a PRB in the CVA and trying to shoot PRB's after using minnie balls lubed with the beeswax mixture in the Buffalo Hunter.
Need to get back to the range with the .50 caliber Hawkins sans hardlube to see if it shoots better at 50yds. Thanks for the replies.

[triggerhappy243]

reclaiming your shot patches is critical in seeing what is going on. you should try to make this a point with the rso. maybe shoot at the 1st or last bench.

[Rick N Bama]

It’s been a while, but as I recall the Buffalo Hunter I had had very shallow rifling, and would shoot a bullet OK, but not a patched ball. Try a slightly bigger ball with a thinner patch. Sometimes these things can drive you nuts.

Good luck!

It's been many years since I've owned a Buffalo Hunter, but as I recall mine shot well with a .575" RB using Patch made from an old T-Shirt.