High end 1911's worth the price of admission?

[osteodoc08]

Had the opportunity to really examine a Night Hawk Custom GA Precision model with a rail frame and threaded barrel. Most expensive 1911 I've ever handled. But I question if the price of entry is worth 3-4 nice colts or 2-3 nice dan wessons.

For those that truly own and shoot such nice pieces of shooting iron, are they truly worth the cost?

[tazman]

I don't own one. I did get the chance to shoot a couple of high end 1911 pistols a year ago. One was an STI high end tactical pistols. The other was a Les Baer.
What I found out was, I am not a good enough shot to tell the difference between the high end guns and a Springfield Range officer by shooting them.
The high end guns had excellent workmanship. They were extremely tight but very smooth. Triggers were perfect. I still could not shoot them better than my RO.
I think a person who is a great pistol shot would find value in one of these. I can't, simply because I am not good enough.

[dverna]

I have owned two Clark’s built by the old man. Both were exceptionally accurate (determined by firing 50 shot groups from a Ranson Rest).

I can no longer shoot Bullseye so they are gone. But they were worth every penny.

There are many who buy a name but the high end guns I have been fortunate enough to own were good values.

[contender1]

I have shot several top end 1911's. They are build tighter,, and to be more accurate. Serious shooters,, like competition folks,,, will say they are worth it,, because a gain in accuracy can mean the difference in several places in the finishing order. A 1911 that can shoot tight 2"-3" groups at 50 yds will be dependable to put the bullets in the highest scoring area of a target,,, even if the shooter is slightly off. Making these gun accurate & smooth are what makes them cost so much. Usually all the hand work in building one is where the cost comes in.

Worth it?

Only you, your desires, and your pocketbook can decide.

[bluelund79]

One word answer....Yes. I have a Les Baer Prowler III. It’s heads above in all aspects my Series 1 Kimber, Colt Combat Commander, Ruger Commander and Springfield Range Officer. From fit and finish, to the subtle details, the price is about the same as the other four listed. It would also be the absolute last of them to ever go if worse case happened to my family. It’s an heirloom piece that will go to my namesake son. My other son has already claimed my favorite revolver to even things out. Buy once, cry never once you shoot it

[gray wolf]

I have shot several top end 1911's. They are build tighter,, and to be more accurate. Serious shooters,, like competition folks,,, will say they are worth it,, because a gain in accuracy can mean the difference in several places in the finishing order. A 1911 that can shoot tight 2"-3" groups at 50 yds will be dependable to put the bullets in the highest scoring area of a target,,, even if the shooter is slightly off. Making these gun accurate & smooth are what makes them cost so much. Usually all the hand work in building one is where the cost comes in.

Worth it?

I agree with most of the above, if your a high end shooter it's possible a high end gun could get you a few more points. In that case, could be a good idea.

If money is no object and you just want one and you don't need any other reason
Then by all means get one

If you are a 5/10/ 12 yard shooter that does not shoot at least 1 1/4 inch groups now,
you ain't gonna shoot to much of a noticeable difference spending $2500 more.
If it's a reliability thing ? spend a few buxx on your carry piece and get it dependable.

Some people will still pound there thumb--even with a $300 hammer.

[M-Tecs]

That depends on the application. If you have a true need to the benefits the extra cost will get you yes they are worth the cost. If you don't have the need or skill take advantage of these benefits it may not justify the extra cost.

[Bigslug]

The tolerances of my 1911 collection peak out with a Springfield TRP that I scored secondhand for a tiny bit more than the price of the outwardly similar Parkerized Loaded.

It's a really nice gun.

I've handled and shot several of the full Custom Shop Springfields. They are truly awesome examples of the gunmaker's art.

And my answer to your question is: Unless you're shooting NRA Bullseye, and are competitive at it, NO! What was the 1911 FOR: blowing an armed adversary out of his socks at short range, or was it intended to be used as a stockless sniper rifle?

It's been my experience that the average GI spec 1911, sometimes even with considerable wear and bore pitting, will exceed the abilities of most of the people that will ever pick it up, SO WHY IN THE SEVEN HELLS DO WE NEED TO BUILD THEM WITH THE CARE AND EXPENSE OF A THOUSAND-YARD TARGET RIFLE??? If it shoots to the sights, is reliable, and can reliably hit a coffee can at 50 yards, the mission of the 1911 (or any other combat auto) has been accomplished.

I wish more of the 1911 industry - and their customers - would wake up and realize that they're building PISTOLS and not lightsabers wrapped in a shroud of mysticism. If you are planning to take your auto-pistol handloading to the Nth degree for whatever reason, Springfield's TRP/Trophy Match level of build quality, at around $1,500 is where (I think) the Law of Diminishing Returns really begins to kick in hard. That gun will shoot better than probably 99% of the people that ever hold it. Doubling the price will get you a gun that will shoot better than 99.5% of the people that ever hold it. Meanwhile, a lowly $750 specimen will only shoot better than 97% of the people that ever hold it. Those guns are absolute trash, I tell you.

Having played the Highpower Rifle game, I understand putting that kind of work into a handgun that will be used in the pursuit of a Distinguished Marksman's badge, but to drop that kind of coin on a door-kicker's gun with fixed night sights and a light rail is beyond silly. For most of us, the Rock Islands and $1000-ballpark Springfields will more than get it done.

[Mike Kerr]

When shooting in Competitions it seems to be worth it but otherwise it is not really necessary if you make reasonable enhancements to well built stock guns as an alternative.

[wildcatter]

I look at a lot more than just the bennefit of accuracy, My Valor V-BOB and My LB Premier both offer 100% reliability. The Premier is a great gun with the 1.5" guarantee, but it is also nice to stack all your brass in the same general spot and not all over. The other thing is knowing any ammo I stick in it, feeds and ejects jacket lead round nose flat HP name it.

Then there is the DW it has went over 1000 rounds at a time between cleanings and zero Fail to Feeds, same as the bear I have shot 9 different factory loads and 5 different handloads, including SWC, TC, and RN lead loads in one outing and not one fail to feed. I also have the luxury of knowing I can pull the CCW and plug a ground hog out to 50 to 80 yards pretty easy if I do my part.

Accuracy to me is just a bonus, knowing the gun has had special care to make it all it can be is the real deal breaker for me. Plus knowing I can trust my life to it if needed is also the biggest reason for me to have a gun with special attention to it's build. You also get the comfort of knowing the finest parts from lock work and firing mechanism, to the springs and pins are less likely to fail in severe use situation.

Then comes Knowing the fitting and timing all add up to less were and tear whether you run it hard or not, this also justifies the investment knowing fatigue is much less to worry about and durability is optimized to the enth degree.

I carried the Premier for a couple years till I got the commander sized bobbed Valor, today the Valor is my EDC CCW, and the longer I own it, the more I shoot it, the more confidence I have knowing it is more than 3 Colts outa the box. I would not trade either for 3 Colts, or Springfield's, until Custom shop guns come into play,, then they would have to be pretty highly modified!

Like was already said, If I didn't carry one daily, or shoot them enough to stay proficient with them, or only shot them seldom at 15 feet or yards,,,, I may decide they were not earning their keep for the investment. But they are used often, and I have used them to shoot Varmints at longer range, as well as trust them for EDC, so to me yes they are well worth it. I also know now that I have them, they arte not only worth what I paid for em,,, they are worth more today than what I have invested in them, most are, but there is that pride of ownership, and with it comes knowing the difference hands on.

I would never suggest that any quality firearm was not worth buying. Their value is always assured, and unless your spending your rent money or kids lunch money, you probably won't make a much better investment when purchased right spending it on anything else, including gold. JMHO

[Lloyd Smale]

I kind of fall in the middle. I do think theres a difference between a 500 dollar 1911 and a 1000 dollar 1911 that about any shooter will see and feel the difference. Between a 1000 dollar gun and a 3000 dollar gun, sure there might be a bit of difference but is it worth 3 times the price? not to me. I shot ppc and bullseye with an sti Trojan that I paid a grand for. Shot for years and decided I wanted a les baer and it ran my 2k. My scores didn't change a bit. I actually like the sti better and the LB went down the road.

I guess it comes down to what you need. If your only going to the range and rolling beer cans a 500 dollar gun will suffice. most of them will shoot 2-3 inch groups and a jam or failure to feed once in a couple hundred rounds is no big deal. If your life depends on it and all you have is 500 bucks buy a glock. Or buck up for a slightly better 1911. Same if your shooting comp. If 250 scores in ppc are good enough for you then a 500 dollar gun will get you through the day. If you think when you shot a 290 that you had a poor day then you need a good gun. Personally I'm not showing up at a shooting competition with a gun that doesn't at least shoot a one inch 25 yard group. At least at that level I know that if I shoot a 9 ring it was my fault not the guns.

Now I'm sure someone is going to come back and say there cheap 500 dollar gun is a 100percent reliable and shoots one inch groups. Maybe it does but id bet if you bought 5 of them that MAYBE one out of the 5 would be that good. Id also like to compare your 500 dollar gun to a 1000 dollar gun after 50k rounds have gone down range. Doesn't it still shoot that well? Is it still that reliable?

To me GOOD 1911s start at about 800 bucks, maybe 700 if you find a sale. You also have to figure in what that 800-1000 dollar colt Kimber springfield. ruger ect is still worth used if you decide to trade it. Is your gun dealer going to give you top dollar for a ria, tarrus, or other inexpensive brand. Most dealers shy away from them because they know they were cheap and there might be good reason your trading it off. Nope for 500 bucks I'm coming home with a glock, m&p or something similar that I'm 99 percent sure is going to go bang EVERY time.

[6bg6ga]

I've had the stock Colt Government models that you couldn't get a 4" group at 25 yards to save your soul. I've owned the Colt Gold Cup National Match 70 series and they were capable of 1.25-1.5 groups easily in my hands. I've had Sig Tac Pacs that were accurate (couldn't live with the trigger pull).

I currently own a Colt officers in stainless ( one of my carry guns). I own a S&W from the custom shop which is very tight and extremely accurate and has a decent trigger. I also have an abortion... its a Colt national match barrel slide and bushing on an essex frame with a trigger that is extremely light and crisp.

Triggers make a very marked difference. The attention to detail the tightness and fit are a factor in accuracy. Would I spend 3 or 4K for a really good 1911? Probably not when I can achieve the accuracy I have with the $1495.00 S&W 1911 from the custom shop and the 1911 with the match barrel, bushing, and slide. Give me a very good trigger with a gun that is properly fitted and I will deliver a bullseye one can be proud of. Give me something that is sloppy with a 8 lb trigger and I will have a marked group spread.

[6bg6ga]

Attachment 209377

Some of my work at 25 yards with the abortion 1911.

I have slightly better groups with my S&W 1911 from the custom shop.

[NSB]

I've owned at least half a dozen truly custom built guns. The best one was a Les Baer gun that was built by Claudio Salasa, one of the best gunsmiths to ever come out of South Africa. His work was truly outstanding. It was pricey, but back then I was traveling around the country entering bigger shoots and shooting against other top shooters. That gun would put every shot in under an inch at 35 yards, had a 1.5lb trigger, and was utterly reliable. I won or placed at every shoot I used it in. When entry fees are very high and you've traveled many miles to get there...with associated costs, the cost of the gun is money well spent. For someone using it for casual or informal paper punching it's nice if you can afford it, but probably not worth the money. If the truth were told, most shooters wouldn't benefit much from it anyway. You've got to be at a very high skill level to get the advantage out of the gun.

[6bg6ga]

Now you have me wondering if I would benefit from a 1.5 lb trigger pull and the answer is probably a yes. My experience from watching many people shoot is their performance gets better when trigger pull is decreased.

[tazman]

Now you have me wondering if I would benefit from a 1.5 lb trigger pull and the answer is probably a yes. My experience from watching many people shoot is their performance gets better when trigger pull is decreased.

That is how it works for me. I have never shot a handgun with a trigger that light, but when I get a trigger under 4lb my groups improve markedly. At 3lb, my groups are as tight as they are ever going to be.

[Rick Hodges]

They are not worth my money.....I have shot a Clark Bullseye gun...a tempermental, extremely accurate specialist piece, and a Les Bauer.

I would not have traded my Series 70 Gov't model with hi-vis sights, Svenson Ambi-safety, and a crisp clean 5 lb. trigger for either of them. The extra money did not make either of those weapons any more useful to me for my purposes.

Others may feel differently, and I'm ok with that. They can spend their money for what they want.

[snowwolfe]

To me, they can be worth it if:

1. The shooter can take advantage of their inherent accuracy.
2. The shooter wants to own one. God knows we all spend money of stuff most everyone else considers to be stupid. The point is, you worked for your money, enjoy it, and buy what you want.

I call these accurate type of guns my "no excuse" models. Meaning if I miss I have no excuse. Used to own a Les Premier with the 1.5 inch guarantee. Not only was it superb in the accuracy dept but it was put together like a swiss watch. Plus it NEVER jammed or failed to feed or eject and the trigger was outstanding. Life is short, buy what you want, or it will eat at you until you scratch the itch.

[jakharath]

I'm a 1911 guy. I love them. Been carrying a Colt Gold Cup that's had lots of custom work done to it over the decades. Great shooter, very accurate, eats everything I feed her. But I've had a hankering for a "nice" 1911 for years. Looked at Wilson, Night Hawk, Les Baer and others. Decided on a Les Baer because they are more of a working gun. Wilson makes some gorgeous guns but after buying one I'd be afraid to put it in a holster for fear of scratching it.

In the first part of summer this year, I purchased a used Les Baer Premier II with 1.5 inch at 50 yards guarantee. Took it to the range with most of a 50 cal ammo can with some dirty, and I mean dirty reloads. These were some old home cast 230 RN and 200 SWC bullets that looked like they had dirt and small rocks poured over them on a hot day. Cleaned them us some, the loaded them over some Unique that was made in the 60's and that didn't burn very clean. At all.

So, I load up a handfull of 8rd mags of this wonderful ammo at the table on the range. Walk 10 feet to the firing line. Dump the magazine in short order. The repeat the process. I stopped counting rounds at 1200. I continued to shoot all of the ammo I had brought. Somewhere around 800 rounds I had to put on gloves because the gun was getting hot. Really hot. Uncomfortably hot.

Now for the report. There were ZERO fails to feed, eject or fire.

I took her home, field stripped and cleaned her. The next range trip was more accuracy testing, since I knew she would function properly. This is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot. It's a joy to shoot. My poor Colt Gold Cup hasn't been out of the safe. The sad thing is that I have more money tied up in the Gold Cup than a new Les Baer would cost. And I bought mine used. If money was no object, I'd have more Les Baers.

If you ever get in my part of Texas I'd be happy to let you shoot mine.

[ShooterAZ]

I think the high end models are worth the $. The fit and finish alone sets them apart. My Les Baer is a tack driver, and yes I can shoot well enough to notice the difference. This is not to say that mid-range 1911's aren't accurate though. One of my most accurate 1911's is a Para-Ord P14-45. It's had some trigger work done, and the accuracy is surprising because there's a quite a bit of slop when the barrel hood is depressed...go figure. I also have a very early 3 digit Kimber Custom, made in Clackamas ,OR before Kimber moved to NY. It's also a highly accurate well made pistol. Maybe I just got lucky with these, but with the Les Baer or Wilson your'e gonna always get a fine shooter, guaranteed.