High end 1911's worth the price of admission?

[KVO]

Having built several 1911s (I do not claim to be a bullseye pistolsmith, but have worked with a few), my take is that the "high end" 1911s in the $1250-2000 range are solid out of the box. You can pay more for the name and prestige of owning, but you likely won't realize any better accuracy or reliability. I'd say Nighthawk and Wilson are crazy to ask $3,000+ for a bland polish job and cookie cutter grips, but if people will pay it why not? At that price point I would require high end polish and bluing, nicely figured wood grips, etc. but to each their own. About 80% of the pistol's mechanical accuracy comes from how well the hood and bushing are fit to the slide. A good gunsmith can get most any 1911 to feed reliably. BTW I've seen guns that feed empty cases and jam on live ammo. Besides, never been able to get any of my guns to fire empties.

[TenTea]

The short answer is "yes."

I'll add some more Baer love to this thread...
Years ago, I sold 6 used Colts to buy 3 new Baers and never looked back.
However, I would not sell 3 used Baers to buy 1 new Wilson (or comparable).
Baers are a little spendy, I would say mid-range in price, but nowhere near the top end of 1911 world.
After shooting and carrying them extensively for a few years, I can say I'm completely satisfied and without lust for another.
I do sorta like the Hemi, though... haha!

If you hand a really nicely fit and well crafted pistol to an experienced handgunner for inspection, they will work the slide and trigger and say, "wow!"
My pistols met the Baer guarantee, shooting inside of 3 inches at 50 yards from a sandbag rest with factory and handloaded ammo.

[DougGuy]

Here's my take, they both hit where I aim at 25yds, both shoot to 2" at 25yds, both are reliable, both built on USA made Auto Ordnance lowers, one has a WWII era Remington Rand top end complete with WWII era sights, the other has a Colt Commander top end with a Briley bushing and Harrison sights. Both needed slides lapped to the frames which is a big plus as the slide to frame fit is excellent!

These are utility guns, the 5" sits at my computer desk and is on call 24/7, the Commander sits in the safe, it is a backup to my Kahr CW45 edc pistol.

The GI 45 cost around $450 to build, the Commander about $800 so I don't have the top names on mine, but I have value, accuracy, reliability, and I have TWO 1911s for a LOT less than the price of a used LB..

[pworley1]

You are the only one that can answer that question because you are the only one that it applies to. What may be priceless to one person may be worthless to another.

[sac]

I Have a Springfield Professional, Colt Rail Gun, regular Colt 80 series Springfield range officer and Springfield G.I.. There is a difference between the Professional and RG, 2000 dollars difference not really. The difference between the other three and first two is a lot. The GI took a lot to get it to work 100%. Would I ever buy a high dollar one again no. Like said earlier 1000. to 1500. is a good range to get a good reliable 1911. Hilton yam has a good write up on duty ready 1911's

[KCSO]

I have built my own since 1982 and have worked with some top makers. I'll be frank with you a LOT of the bells and whistles are just hype. A good solid gun with good fit and sights will do everything the average man needs. Most folks would be better off with a $750 dollar gun and 2000 dollars worth of ammo. Rob Leatham could take a standard GI 45 and clean your plow every day of the week even if you shot HIS favourite gun. If you are a SERIOUS bullseye shooter a custom gun MIGHT be worth the cost, but for Joe Blow shooting a few weekend combat matches ??? And when you get to carry guns that is a whole different kettle of fish.

At the last qual I shot my own gun a lightly tweaked Remington 1911, my buddy shot his new $2000 dollar custom gun and guess who had 2 jams... Read the instructions 500 rounds before you can expect 100% function. The gun was too tight IMHO for a carry gun where you might have to shoot any ammo available.

Bottom line...if it makes you fell better spend as much as you want, but make sure it WORKS and do so every time if you plan to carry it, there are no time outs in a real fight!

[Lloyd Smale]

sure if you want it for a dedicated range gun but a 1.5lb trigger is to light for a self defense gun. I like them at least 3 and 4 is better. A good 4lb trigger that is crisp can be shot very accurately.

Now you have me wondering if I would benefit from a 1.5 lb trigger pull and the answer is probably a yes. My experience from watching many people shoot is their performance gets better when trigger pull is decreased.

[lefty o]

i get a kick out of how many people consider certain things hi end while others dont. personally if it runs 100% and hits where you are aiming thats all that is truly required, but just like cars or houses sometimes we desire nicer. imo the Baer's, and nighthawks and wilsons are nice guns but they are far short of high end.

[jakharath]

All of my 1911's, from truck guns up to my Gold Cups have had work done on them. I won't keep a 1911 if it won't feed, fire and eject properly. They must be reliable. I'll give you an example, picked up a old Colt slide with the fixed sights, a Forster blem lower, and the rest of the parts needed. Took it to a gunsmith. Had the slide milled for better sights, ejection port lowered and flared, trigger job, barrel & frame ramped, etc..., etc..., etc... Probably have $750 into the gun by now. I would be hard pressed to recover that money if I sold it. The Gold Cup I carried for decades has much more money tied up in it than a new Les Baer and would sell for much less than a used Les Baer. If I had it to do all over again, I'd bought a Les Baer back then - less money tied up in the gun, less downtime for all of the times the gun was being smithed and a higher resale value down the road.

[anothernewb]

I can't speak to the really high end 1911's. But my DW silverback and Kimber grand raptor are the nicest shooting pieces I own. Not that my ruger, the RIA, the STI, or the range officer are any slouches. But those two are a bit nicer overall.

The best way I can describe it is that all of them are superbly accurate, and have all produced fantastic groups - but I'm more accurate, more consistently with the DW first, and the kimber second.

As to reliability. My ruger has over 11,000 rounds through it without a single failure, that wasn't related to a problem with my reloads - and even then those were my first reloads as I learned the correct parameters. Other than that I really can't recall any of them having any failures.

[6bg6ga]

sure if you want it for a dedicated range gun but a 1.5lb trigger is to light for a self defense gun. I like them at least 3 and 4 is better. A good 4lb trigger that is crisp can be shot very accurately.

My 2 carry guns have at least 3.5 lb triggers now.

[Walkingwolf]

Value is determined by the buyer/user. If a person thinks they are worth it, then they are. It is like golfers buying 10 grand golf clubs, for most golfers it will make no difference in their game, but if it makes them feel better then go for it.

[6bg6ga]

Value is determined by the buyer/user. If a person thinks they are worth it, then they are. It is like golfers buying 10 grand golf clubs, for most golfers it will make no difference in their game, but if it makes them feel better then go for it.

I'll disagree with you. I've shot total junk 1911's in the past. Some are totally incapable of any accuracy period. This was the case in a Colt Government model that I had purchased years ago. It had a bunch of work done to it to feed and eject along with a better barrel and bushing and a rail on the top of it. Can't remember what you call that.

Anyway it absolutely wouldn't shoot a group in anyones hand that you could cover with a dinner plate. Up to a certain point a higher priced gun = more accuracy when it comes to 1911's. Its not about feeling better its about form, fit, and function and you pay for what you get.
I don't know where golf and golf clubs would enter into any conversation about guns. No one in there right mind would pay money to walk around a course hit a ball and then chase the son of a gun.

If anyone feels I am incorrect please do remove your barrel bushing that fits tight and replace it with a worn bushing with plenty of slop and report back on how your groups opened up because they will. Been there done that.

[6bg6ga]

I can talk of another hobby that I have that is a classic example of snake oil lights and shadows. Are you a DIY Audio fanatic? If so your probably a vacuum tube diyer like myself. Lets talk high priced parts lets talk coulping caps for example. In tube amps there are coupling caps for example between the phase splitter and the output tubes. The coupling caps allow the AC signal to pass while not letting the high B+ voltage pass. There is considerable discussion about the composition and cost of these caps some of which can go for over $500 for a pair. Is there a difference? There are two groups of people. Some say yes money = higher performance better sound and others that feel that based on what they hear the $10 a pair caps sound just as good.

Snake oil....money buys better parts better sound. Examples of this could be interconnect cables costing 5K or more or speaker cables at 10K or more. Is there a difference? Can you measure any difference? Since I have played with the high dollar stuff and the ebay variety and tried to measure the differences if any I can say that I cannot measure any differences. So, can I hear any differences? The only fair way would be the blind test where I cannot see someone switching identical amplifiers to identical speakers. So, blind hearing test I hear no differences.

Back to 1911's....

Certainly cannot do a blind shooting test as one must see the target. Using gun A with factory ammunition I can make a tight group an gun B with same ammo doesn't shoot a tight group. One could make the assumption that gun A is better.

What makes gun A better than gun B? Maybe gun A has a better barrel, better barrel bushing, and better fit between the slide and the frame. Thus its easy to come to the conclusion that form , fit , and function = better accuracy.

In this instance there is no snake oil at all. Gun A performs better and that can be proven by increased accuracy. Gun B that is looser doesn't fit as well and is of less quality equates to lesser accuracy.

With audio the snake oil theory has us believing that money equates to better quality. In reality money doesn't necessarily mean better quality or performance. Quality in my mind at least is dictated by better performance something that can be measured. In the sport of shooting you seem to get what you pay for most times.

You can buy a range rover brand 1911 for $300 and have it shoot a 8" group or you can buy something else that will provide better performance in an experienced hand. Money matters when it comes to 1911's because money does buy form, fit, and function.

[TenTea]

Might I add...it is also a treat, in this day and age, to buy a high quality, hand (and machine) crafted, American made product from a company built up by the original founder, which is family run, today.

I like that!

There are several examples of this type in the gun business and I will support them as I can, based on my own desires.

[2shot]

Check out Accuracy X 1911 shooting at 500 yards.

https://www.facebook.com/Accuracy-X-...4730025561939/

I've met Steve Huff at Camp Perry and he's the real deal.

Only you can decide if you need that kind of accuracy and spending that kind of money is worth the benefits to you but it does get pricey.

2shot

[Walkingwolf]

I'll disagree with you. I've shot total junk 1911's in the past. Some are totally incapable of any accuracy period. This was the case in a Colt Government model that I had purchased years ago. It had a bunch of work done to it to feed and eject along with a better barrel and bushing and a rail on the top of it. Can't remember what you call that.

Anyway it absolutely wouldn't shoot a group in anyones hand that you could cover with a dinner plate. Up to a certain point a higher priced gun = more accuracy when it comes to 1911's. Its not about feeling better its about form, fit, and function and you pay for what you get.
I don't know where golf and golf clubs would enter into any conversation about guns. No one in there right mind would pay money to walk around a course hit a ball and then chase the son of a gun.

If anyone feels I am incorrect please do remove your barrel bushing that fits tight and replace it with a worn bushing with plenty of slop and report back on how your groups opened up because they will. Been there done that.

I have a Star Super that I paid a whopping $130 for, never fails, shoots sub 2 inch groups from a rest. My milsurp put together from parts 20 years ago still shoots one hole groups from a rest. Investment including 10 milsurp magazines, not over $400. There is a difference from inexpensive guns that work, and some that are junk, or lemons. Spending 10 grand for handgun is just not going to happen for me, the most I have ever spent is $900, and that Smith 625 shoots one hole groups from a rest. Apparently it is worth it for you, just because you deem it worth it, I support that decision for you.

[Walkingwolf]

Not my gun, or video, BUT for the majority of shooters they cannot group like that with any handgun, including very expensive ones. I am not a Glock fanboy, but this is one area that they poke fun at 1911 fanboys, which I am one, just not extreme price ones. Value based shooters can get more bang for their buck with guns like Glock, I put Hi Point in almost the same category as Glocks. Sorry no offense intended I own Glocks myself, I carry a 1911 because it is noticeable more accurate. The only improvement I could get from my cheap 1911 would be all bullets going through the same hole without cloverleaf.

[lefty o]

funny how posts like this always degrade into a pissing match with people proving how great their stuff is.

[5Shot]

A high end 1911 has very little to do with accuracy and reliability. Sure, those things come with a high end, as parts are "fitted", not assembled, but you might get accuracy AND reliability from a sub $1K gun as well. BTW - I don't think there is such a thing as a "Nice" Colt these days. They are rather pedestrian. The difference on a custom is the attention to detail and all of the hand work involved. Hand work costs losts of $$$. If you can see the difference by looking at a pic, then maybe it is for you. If you look at them as say - "That doesn't look any different than my $600 Springfield", than I would say don't bother. If you are in the latter category, buy one, shoot it and if it doesn't fit the bill, sell it and buy another until you find one that does. The Nighthawk crew are mostly Ex-Wilson guys and they have been working with Dick Heinie for quite some time. The Wilson guys are a pretty good group as well. My next handgun will likely be an EDC-X9 - they are awesome.

Worth it -



Meh...