High end 1911's worth the price of admission?

[35remington]

Comparing a Wilson EDC 9 at 2800 dollars and proclaiming it to be “worth it” while showing a 975 dollar Colt and proclaiming it to be pedestrian is the biggest apples to oranges comparison I can think of. Sink 2K in customization on the Colt then tell me if it is worth it now?

Sheesh.

Since Wilson will gladly accept a Colt and do customization work on it, does that not also tell you the Colt at much lower cost is “worth it?’

The previous commentary is rather like saying a base model Honda is not worth buying but slap a fart can and engine and suspension mods on it and it is suddenly worth the money. We hafta start with the base model at some point.

I guess worth is money based only, huh? The gun starts out as ordinary before the work is done on it, right?

The criteria that matters is the manufacture of the major components like slide and frame imust be of good quality so it is worthy of customization. By being of amply good quality in that area once again the worth of the Colt is proven.

[6bg6ga]

A high end 1911 has very little to do with accuracy and reliability. Sure, those things come with a high end, as parts are "fitted", not assembled, but you might get accuracy AND reliability from a sub $1K gun as well. BTW - I don't think there is such a thing as a "Nice" Colt these days. They are rather pedestrian. The difference on a custom is the attention to detail and all of the hand work involved. Hand work costs losts of $$$. If you can see the difference by looking at a pic, then maybe it is for you. If you look at them as say - "That doesn't look any different than my $600 Springfield", than I would say don't bother. If you are in the latter category, buy one, shoot it and if it doesn't fit the bill, sell it and buy another until you find one that does. The Nighthawk crew are mostly Ex-Wilson guys and they have been working with Dick Heinie for quite some time. The Wilson guys are a pretty good group as well. My next handgun will likely be an EDC-X9 - they are awesome.

Worth it -



Meh...

Colt used to be my favorite out of the box 1911 back when they were making the 70 series national match. When the Colt officers came out I had to have one. I bought one and it was the biggest piece of horse hockey I've ever bought. I totally re-springed it before it would even work correctly.

[6bg6ga]

As pointed out in several posts it is possible to purchase a cost effective gun that will function and be accurate. Having said that I will also say that in todays world it would seem that quality is bought. To get a quality fit one must pay extra for it. Fit is an important component in accuracy. Show me a loose 1911 and I will show you a loose group and vice versa.

[5Shot]

Comparing a Wilson EDC 9 at 2800 dollars and proclaiming it to be “worth it” while showing a 975 dollar Colt and proclaiming it to be pedestrian is the biggest apples to oranges comparison I can think of. Sink 2K in customization on the Colt then tell me if it is worth it now?

Sheesh.

Since Wilson will gladly accept a Colt and do customization work on it, does that not also tell you the Colt at much lower cost is “worth it?’

The previous commentary is rather like saying a base model Honda is not worth buying but slap a fart can and engine and suspension mods on it and it is suddenly worth the money. We hafta start with the base model at some point.

I guess worth is money based only, huh? The gun starts out as ordinary before the work is done on it, right?

The criteria that matters is the manufacture of the major components like slide and frame imust be of good quality so it is worthy of customization. By being of amply good quality in that area once again the worth of the Colt is proven.

My comparison answered the question the OP asked. Will $2K bring the Colt to the level of the EDC X9? Doubt it. You'll have to throw away everything but the frame, slide and grips and start over. Hell, you could have $1K in parts before work even started. Checkering the Front Strap, flattening and serating the slide top and rear, cutting it for custom rear sight, ejection port work, mag well work, straightening the lines, dehorning...lots to be done.

And now you DON'T have a Colt, you have a custom, so no, the Colt isn't worth it, but the custom is.

I have handled a bit of everything from: Colt, Springfield, Nighthawk, Wilson, Sample, Heinie, Christiansen, Brian, Yost, Chen, Harrison, Rogers, Burton and many others. The Colt and Springfield need lots of work to get to the level of a Nighthawk or Wilson. I have worked with all of these gentleman and I am very familiar with what is involved in making these guns.

The amount of hand work in a true custom is in the neighborhood of 80 hours. If I was having that work done, yes, it would be on a Colt, but a 70 Series.

[tazman]

As pointed out in several posts it is possible to purchase a cost effective gun that will function and be accurate. Having said that I will also say that in todays world it would seem that quality is bought. To get a quality fit one must pay extra for it. Fit is an important component in accuracy. Show me a loose 1911 and I will show you a loose group and vice versa.

Show me a really great 1911(or other handgun for that matter) and I will show you a loose group. I can't shoot to the capabilities of any handgun I own. Therefore I don't buy really expensive handguns expecting my accuracy to improve. It would be a waste of money for me to do that.
On only 3 occasions have I come across a handgun that wouldn't shoot as well as I know I can. Those went down the road.
For someone who can shoot at or near the capabilities of the handgun, the expense is completely justified. In that case you need every bit of accuracy and consistency that you can buy.

[35remington]

Shrinking a Colt or Kimber to 3.5 inches is a mistake to begin with. I can show you links where entire police departments returned their 3.5 inch Kimbers purchased for their undercover cops due to unreliability.

The magazine springs are especiallly deficient once they are shortened that much. Super short 45s like my Shield need super stiff recoil and magazine springs and a few other tweaks to get them to run reliably. 1911s do not have that option.

A 3.5 inch 1911 is more an excercise in salesmanship and “buyer beware” than a smart purchase choice.

[35remington]

As a said, comparing a 975 dollar gun to a 2&00 dollar gun is pointless. Give me nearly 2K to spend on a Colt and it will be tricked out just as I need with no pointless front cocking serrations or other folderol that adds nothing to function. When I am done I will have way less than 2K in improvements in it. Way less.

The mindset that you HAVE TO buy everything someone is offering to have a worthwhile piece is obviously a viewpoint I do not share. Give me a decent trigger and sights, suitable accuracy for the job and reliability and the relevant points are covered. Checker, serrate, swoop and fondle all you want. It is your money.

The rest is window dressing. I mean.....serrating the top? Straightening the lines? Is this a working gun or something that gets fondled and babied and hides in a dark safe most of the time?

One of my carry pieces is a stock Series 70 Colt Reproduction. It works well.

The Colt or Kimber or Springfield do not cost what a Wilson does. Champagne taste is great but most of us drive Fords.

[TAC14]

If $ is no object why not ?
If it is, buy the $500 gun and spend the rest on ammo.
My mixed bag Remington/Ithaca WW II veteran will put all 7 G.I. ball rounds in the belly of a bad guy target at 15 yards. That's what it was made for and that's what it does.

[5Shot]

As a said, comparing a 975 dollar gun to a 2&00 dollar gun is pointless. Give me nearly 2K to spend on a Colt and it will be tricked out just as I need with no pointless front cocking serrations or other folderol that adds nothing to function. When I am done I will have way less than 2K in improvements in it. Way less.

The mindset that you HAVE TO buy everything someone is offering to have a worthwhile piece is obviously a viewpoint I do not share. Give me a decent trigger and sights, suitable accuracy for the job and reliability and the relevant points are covered. Checker, serrate, swoop and fondle all you want. It is your money.

The rest is window dressing. I mean.....serrating the top? Straightening the lines? Is this a working gun or something that gets fondled and babied and hides in a dark safe most of the time?

One of my carry pieces is a stock Series 70 Colt Reproduction. It works well.

The Colt or Kimber or Springfield do not cost what a Wilson does. Champagne taste is great but most of us drive Fords.

Lots of working guns get all that treatment - why? Because the guy buying it wants it. The answer to the OP is obviously yes, or there wouldn't be a Nighthawk or a Wilson or many, many gunsmiths with 5+ year wait times.

The answer for YOU is obviously no, but that doesn't mean the answer IS no. For me, the answer is yes, and I would rather have one high end 1911 than 5 box stock Colts.

I'll leave you all to your opinions.

[35remington]

An opinion is all anyone can have. There are no certainties. Our experiences create the opinions we formulate.

For example, I have a number of 1911s that have unlowered and unflared ejection ports and all eject reliably. Therefore if the factory model comes with that feature that is okay, but not having it is not a reliability downside. It mainly just prevents case mouth denting.....but the sizing die makes them round again anyway.

If someone wants to make their pistol a showpiece I have no problem with that. But I do not buy “coffee table guns” myself. Anything that does not add to reliability or accuracy is not something I have any use for. The 70 I mentioned as my carry gun needed a whole minute’s worth of “dehorning” so the front of the slide behind the bushing did not dig in the holster upon insertion. An Arkansas stone saw to that.

Paying someone to make the gun’s edges look like a well used bar of soap is to me a waste of time and detracts from the gun’s intended appearance. My hands are not so baby soft that I need to put a curve on everything that came out straight. A little manual labor does a man good.

A wag once said that all a 1911 really needed was sights that could be seen and a trigger that could be managed. While it is possible to spend loads of dollars on a 1911, probably more so than any other pistol, unless someone else is paying the bill the person ordering one needs to know what is needed for himself......and what is not.

If you don’t know, perhaps someone else telling you what you need is not the answer. As was said before, define your needs first. Be realistic about return for the investment and your own ability to distinguish between what constitutes window dressing versus a feature that actualy provides a distinguishable improvement.

[clyde-the-pointer]

My Alchemy worked over Les Baer is the chit. One hole (quarter sized) groups at 25 yds. Feeds everything. Fits my hand, tight, neat, awesome. Buy one and see for yourself.

[Bigslug]

My Alchemy worked over Les Baer is the chit. One hole (quarter sized) groups at 25 yds. Feeds everything. Fits my hand, tight, neat, awesome. Buy one and see for yourself.

Yes, but for the same money, you could make quarter-sized groups at 300 yards:

[lefty o]

Yes, but for the same money, you could make quarter-sized groups at 300 yards:

maybe he doesnt need to shoot 300yds.

[TAC14]

And nobody (outside of pure paper punchers) need Quarter sized 45 acp groups @25 yards.

1911 target guns are a construct that was never envisioned by Mr Browning. It was designed to kill hopped up Moros at close range.

As for 300 yard shooting, again, you don't need to spend $5000 to be a winner.

[lefty o]

im sure everyone here advocating that everyone should buy the cheapest workable gun , all of you drive ford fiesta's or equivilent right?

[Walkingwolf]

im sure everyone here advocating that everyone should buy the cheapest workable gun , all of you drive ford fiesta's or equivilent right?

I don't think that is what everybody is advocating, but actually taking a middle of the road approach. If an expensive gun is what a person wants, then all is good, but nothing wrong with a good affordable shooter. We all don't need to belong to the club to be satisfied. Surely if you can understand support for buying a high end 1911, then you should be able to lend support to those who prefer an affordable model.

And if I remember correctly the Honda Civic, in the 80's about equal to the Fiesta, was a very well sold car at a reasonable price. Enough of a success that they are still made with a higher end price.

[Lloyd Smale]

don't get me wrong with this statement as I own 6 1911s right now and really like them but that said there overpriced. A guy can buy two glocks or M&Ps for what one decent 1911 costs and still probably end up with a more reliable gun. I haven't bought a 1911 in 15 years and one a fixed income probably wouldn't buy another. As to the officers sized guns I had one good one. A Kimber cdp. It was accurate and reliable. I owned at least a half a dozen others and they all went down the road because they were unreliable. I wouldn't waste 300 bucks on a 1911 that wasn't at least commander sized today. What there good for is ccw carry and reliability is KING in that dept and being all steel there heavy for there size. For what that Kimber would cost me today. I could buy two m&p shields and a glock 43. or if I wanted one higher end gun could buy a comparable sized sig that would run like a swiss watch. I use or at least used to use 1911s for competition shooting and range plinking and even occasionally ccw. But if shtf and I had to run out of this house with one handgun it sure wouldn't be one of my 1911s. Hang me from the highest tree but id grab my 19 or 23 glock or if a 45 was a necessity my M&P 45 compact. It holds one more round. Is as light as an alloyed frame commander and is dead reliable with any ammo I put in it.

1911s are still cool to me but its about like comparing a 1970 corvette to a 2016. the 70 might be cooler but which would you trust more to go cross country in even if you spent a couple grand dolling it up. I said for years id never own one of those cheap plastic black guns. My tune has changed though. I still have my first glock. My 23. Its had AT LEAST 30k through it over the years. Factory ammo, handloads both hot and mild, cast and jacketed and has NEVER missed a beat. I gets hosed down and lightly oiled about every 1000 rounds. Show me ANY 1911 that has gone 30k without one stovepipe one jam ect and ill tell you that you have a ONE OF A KIND 1911 or are lying or I could have filled the safe with GOOD handguns that do everything but look cooler for what you paid for it. Again I will say there cool. Maybe a 1000 dollars cool anyway but 2 or 3000?? Not this guy. You have to have a lot more toy money then I do to justify that. I'm not buying any 3000 dollar ar15s either when I can get a very accurate dead reliable one for a grand or even less. Consealed carry? Its a no brainer. You can buy a officers sized 1000 dollar 1911 and I can about guarantee you that it isn't going to run like my shield or 43. Its not going to eat any cast handload I put through it and even with factory ammo sure isn't more reliable then those two at half the money. There both much lighter and carry more ammo. Nope in my opinion theres only one reason to carry a 1911 as a ccw gun and that's nostalgia. Me ill take a ugly 500 dollar black gun that's going to go bang EVERY time I pull the trigger. Buy what you want though. Its your money. If everyone liked the same thing as me there would only be chevs on the road and everyone would drink bud light and there would be a single yuppy micro brewery in the world. but if 3000 dollar 1911s and 6 bucks for a bottle of beer and a Mercedes in your driveway is what you like I'm glad you can afford it.

[6bg6ga]

Been re-reading and commenting on this thread and asking myself what I would really spend. Would I spend 3K for a 1911? Much soul searching has gone into my answer and I will have to say no. I've spent up to $1500 for a S&W 1911 from the custom shop. I've compared it to my wifes Kimber, shot my wifes Kimber and I have come to the conclusion it is better accuracy wise and has a much better trigger. Both guns function with any ammo I've tried with no hickups what so ever. The S&W has a better tighter fit which in my mind equates to better accuracy along with the better trigger pull.

Some here would be satisfied with an out of the box Colt and then spending mega bucks making a sows ear into a silk purse. To those I will ask what they actually have when their done. They have a gun with a book value of maybe $700-800 and they have $1500 tied up in it.

I've shot the Rock Islands, springfields and assorted middle road guns and none of them impressed me. I also own a basturd 1911 with a Colt national match slide,bushing and barrel on an essex frame. Money wise its probably worth $400 for the Colt barrel, bushing and slide. The funny thing is it will out shoot a lot of other guns costing more.

Like I mentioned before you buy the fit and with the fit you get better accuracy and better trigger with a lighter pull. With the cheap 1911's some kinda function and accuracy is not all that good. So, unless you can machine and properly fit your 1911 you'll probably have to end up spending some money to buy the accuracy and feel that you want.

[Bigslug]

im sure everyone here advocating that everyone should buy the cheapest workable gun , all of you drive ford fiesta's or equivilent right?

My stance is that the 1911 market has guzzled several flavors of Kool Aid.

It took a while to develop an immunity to it myself. As a kid in the '80's, I felt the pull of the shiny, tricked out, and ultimately fussy Gold Cups as much as anyone, in much the same way a kid feels the pull toward the vast array of unnecessary extras listed in a glossy car sales brochure.

As was said in Jurassic Park, many succumb to the lure of target-inspired features and lose sight of the concept of "because you can, doesn't mean you should". How many actually require that kind of potential out of a handgun? Darn few. How many develop an ability to shoot such a thing to anywhere near its potential? Probably less than 1% of that 1%. How many out there can't shoot for **** and think throwing money at a really expensive crutch will make them better? Ahhhhh! Now we're getting somewhere!

My gripe is not at the concept of the high-end, fully-custom, hand-fitted Bullseye 1911 built for the rare individual trying to perfect his handloads and his ability to a near superhuman level. My gripe is at a customer base and industry who have spent decades selling each other on the notion that such elements are necessary and desirable in a combat gun or casual plinker. All this serves to do is to take the "base" 1911 further away from what it was intended to be.

Start by asking the question: What is this tool FOR? Give me something that works no matter how I abuse it, and that won't break no matter how much ammo I put through it, accurate to a distance that I wouldn't just pick up a long gun for.

I'd pay more for a 1911 that was built to be a Humvee. Unfortunately, the industry seems more driven toward building Porsches.

[jmorris]

I have a number of STI’s and SV pistols that go into the $3k range, the SV pistols really feel like no other.

“Worth it?” For competition, it is for me. That said my most used and carried 1911 style pistol outside competition, is one that cost me $299 and a weeks worth of work.

Kind of like a race car being worth the cost if I am racing but a cheap beater that always starts and runs is all I really need to get to get around.