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Thread: 45-70 load workable?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy armednfree's Avatar
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    45-70 load workable?

    Looking at using bottom end loads for the 45-70 Marlin 400 grain for a powder coated Lee 405 HB boolit. Probably H322 since that is my favorite powder in 45-70. 51.5 grains should give me 1750 FPS I'd say.

    The other options are 3031 and 4064. Probably I'll try those first since I have a good bit of those powders.

    Opinions?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    You need to get a loading manual. "Bottom end loads" that are 1750fps with a 400 grain bullet? That's not even close to "bottom end". Get a loading manual and look at Trapdoor loads. They're a lot closer to "bottom end". You can even load them down from there if you wish. All my 45-70 loads are actually bottom end. I shoot 405g bullets at anywhere from 1150-1450fps. I have yet to recover even one bullet from a deer shot at any distance at any angle. I think you'll find that there are a lot of powders to use in the 45-70, and it's the least fussy caliber I've ever loaded for. My favorite powders for it are: 4198, Rel 7, 2400, and 5744 (not necessarily in that order). All of those powders will get me 1moa out of my High Wall and close to it out of my 1886.
    Sometimes you're better off getting a "new" powder rather than making do with what's on hand. However, the 3031 works quite well in the 45-70. It's not at the top of my list, but it's acceptable.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy armednfree's Avatar
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    I have no desire to shoot my Marlin at what is essentially the same power level as my 45 colt. I have the 45-70 for the very reason to be a thumper. 405 grains at 1750 fits my definition of a thumper. The fact is if I thought I could get away with driving that boolit to 2000 fps I would.

    I said bottom end of the Marlin loads, which that is.
    Last edited by armednfree; 12-11-2017 at 11:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    Have you ever shot a 400 grain bullet at 1750 fps out of your Marlin?

  5. #5
    Banned

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    it ain't no fun in my 86...
    try 22 grs of 2400 most of us settle in at 24grs.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Nobade's Avatar
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    This thread should prove to be entertaining....

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy armednfree's Avatar
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    I've fired 55 grains of H322 behind a Remington 400. No, it is not something you want to spend a great deal of time behind. But I didn't buy the rifle for powder puff loads.

    Now, will I shoot lower loads just practicing, exactly. But pump it up for hunting.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    JSnover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armednfree View Post

    Opinions?
    Try 10.0 grains of Unique. "Practice" implies paper targets and I get complete penetration from that charge under a 400 grain boolit at 200 yards.
    I know, you didn't buy the rifle for 'powder puff' loads but you did ask for opinions. The best way to practice - in my opinion - is with a load that doesn't beat you up.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    The 45/70Marlin I had kicked like a demented mule. The original 45/70 blackpowder load was designed to shoot through a horse at 200 yards. That should be plenty, but it’s your shoulder. Good luck with your load development. Hodgdon has a website with loading info, if you care to go there.

    They list 55 grains of H 322 as a max charge (compressed) with that weight jacketed bullet, just shy of 2000 fps. Min load is 50 grains, for 1757 fps.
    Last edited by scattershot; 12-11-2017 at 06:14 PM.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy Big Tom's Avatar
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    So, you pretty much want to put a Saturn engine with 50 horsepower into your Ferrari and then on the race track put the engine with 750 horsepower in and assume your practice in the Saturn was sufficient?

    Hodgdon lists a 400 grain LFP load with H4895 on their site and under their "reduced loads" instructions say that that powder can be reduced to 60% of the published data for slower loads. That gives you a range from about 30 to 55 grains of H4895 to play with and decide on your best practice load.
    Last edited by Big Tom; 12-11-2017 at 07:03 PM.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSnover View Post
    Try 10.0 grains of Unique. "Practice" implies paper targets and I get complete penetration from that charge under a 400 grain boolit at 200 yards.
    I know, you didn't buy the rifle for 'powder puff' loads but you did ask for opinions. The best way to practice - in my opinion - is with a load that doesn't beat you up.
    I disagree with this opinion completely. You don't practice for running a 26 mile marathon by gently jogging a 1/4 of a mile down to the mailbox everyday in preparation for the big race. If it doesn't hurt to exercise then you aren't developing the muscles for the real job. And that includes purchasing a 460 Weatherby for elephant hunting and then shooting 45 ACP loads out of it at paper targets at 50 feet. My 338 WIN Mag was not purchased for anything but that 400 yard Elk hunt with high pressure jacketed bullet loads, so I don't bother shooting lead out of it. It doesn't serve a purpose. But I do use a lot of lead projectile loads out of my antiques that were designed for them. And the old military rifles and handguns that I don't want to wear the barrels out.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Of the various 45/70 rifles I've owned the only one that's a pleasure to shoot is my 1874 Shiloh Sharps and it weighs 14 lbs with a heavy barrel. Any 45/70 that weighs 7-9 lbs is going to beat you into submission with the proposed loads you're talking about. Recoil levels are going to be 3 times the recoil of a 30'06 or the recoil of a safari/dangerous game 375 H&H bolt rifle.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    JSnover's Avatar
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    To each his own.
    Since it's all about the technique I don't feel the need for The Big Bang every time I pull the trigger. More important is sight picture, sight alignment, etc; Making sure all is right when I pull the trigger. For field use my '06 and one of my 45-70s (both bolt actions) are loaded more towards the top of the scale with jacketed bullets and I shoot each of them often enough to be competent with either to 200 yards.
    Recoil doesn't bother me. To zero a given load, or to develop one, to make sure I know where it hits, it's a fact of life but for practice, yeah I load light.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    it ain't no fun in my 86...
    try 22 grs of 2400 most of us settle in at 24grs.
    Me too 24 grains/2400 and I use a 1/2grain dacron on top of that and I am good for 200yds all day long in my Marlin 1895 .

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I did load up some loads like that when i first got my Marlin,but with 405 jackets......never again. IIRC it was called the "Elmer Keith load" in some gun mag....If you have a microgroove,recovered bullets show decreasing thickness of the rifling engagement on cast bullets as velocity increases.About 1500f/s the grooves disappear,and the bullet tumbles,and barrel leads.Dunno what happens with powdercoat,might be interesting to know.........Do P/C bullets strip?

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Randy C's Avatar
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    I love my 45/70 but I'm to old to shoot a lever gun that kicks like a mule. His picture looks like he's a big boy. I have friends that don't no what recoil is. They can shoot most anything. I think you gave him good advice but you never know he may show us some good targets if he stands up to that gun. And it stays together.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    In my 1895 Marlin with micro grove barrel when I feel the need I can get a little over 2000fps with a 400 grain cast boolet and if that is not enough for you I have gotten over 1800fps with a 500 grain cast boolet. All with no leading and good enough to shoot coyotes at around 200 yards. I have loaded anything from a .457 round ball up to the hot 500 grain load with IMR3031 and been happy.
    Steve

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy rototerrier's Avatar
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    24gr of 2400 works for me. I have a couple boxes of full house loads for the novelty of it. I rarely shoot them though. Just not fun to me to shoot the heavy loads on a regular basis.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Too old to handle my 45-70's anymore, but I always practiced with my full power hunting loads.

    Larry

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    The 45-70 doesn't kill them any deader just because it kicks more, or pushes the bullet faster. What kills is hitting the vitals. I have to laugh at the people who hunt and think they're going to get better results because their bullet travels faster or has more "knock down power" (a figment of their imagination). However, you asked for opinions and got some. Several guys gave you stellar advice on the 2400 powder. It's been one of my most accurate loads and most pleasant to shoot besides. It kills deer as dead as dead can be....and still exits the other side.

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