Do you give 10% to your church?

[fatelk]

In my experience, those at church that do invest a lot of time also tithe faithfully. It is many that don't tithe that sit in the pews, complain about the paint and carpet color and donate no time or money to the church. And then complain when reminded to give.

There’s some truth in what you say, but wouldn’t that same observation logically lead one to want to lead people into being more involved, spiritually mature and faithful, rather than just lecturing and shaming them into giving.

If mature, involved people naturally give then results will follow, whereas browbeating people for money just makes them grumble.

Yes I think this thread has run it’s course. We’re not all going to see things like this the same way so the only resolution one can have is personal. My take away is not necessarily to feel justified or relieved of guilt for not “tithing”, but to pursue better understanding and maturity regardless.

[rosewood]

There’s some truth in what you say, but wouldn’t that same observation logically lead one to want to lead people into being more involved, spiritually mature and faithful, rather than just lecturing and shaming them into giving.

Yes, and many of us have explained our experiences through tithing. How we have been blessed. The "shaming" you speak is to those that continuously justify not giving. As a Christian, we are supposed to encourage other Christians and help correct them when they sin (this road goes both ways of course). Not doing what God tells you to do is a sin. No doubt some pastors "shame" you for not giving, but there are those that encourage you to give in a much better fashion. There are also those that say "give us this much right now and God will bless you in the next 48 hours". You need to run from those, those are just trying to get your money.

Rosewood

[fatelk]

I've met a fair number of people over the years who have attributed their financial success to the fact that they've their full 10%, often with a fair amount of self-righteousness. I guess I should attribute the fact that I've struggled over the years in providing for my family to not tithing... oh wait, we did, faithfully for 15 years through thick and thin, even going above that when I was unemployed, for a building project that ended badly.

I have a coworker who struggled when he was younger but has worked hard and saved and is now quite financially comfortable. I guess he can attribute his success to tithing. Actually not, because he's a God-hating agnostic who doesn't give money away.

I don't say those things to knock giving or faith. I have no doubt of God's provision and blessing. We've struggled over the years but have never gone without our basic needs. We still give, because it's right, not because we think God's going to make us rich. I just think that sometimes we get a simplistic idea of how things work based on some cherry picked verses.

Personally I think giving of one's time is actually more valuable, more of a sacrifice. That's where I fall down; I'm a bit selfish with my time. I've seen some retired people give tremendously with their time, and I respect that a lot.

[Char-Gar]

If somebody measures God's blessings by the material things they have, that person has a real problem understanding how God blessed people.

[skeettx]

Char-Gar
I now see what you have two gold bullets and one non-gold bullet
Mike

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar
I now see what you have two gold bullets and one non-gold bullet
Mike

I had not noticed and have no idea what that means.

[6bg6ga]

Char-Gar
I now see what you have two gold bullets and one non-gold bullet
Mike

What a ridiculous comment. Lets try to stay on the subject please. Char-Gar has as much right to express his opinion as anyone else here.

[6bg6ga]

I've met a fair number of people over the years who have attributed their financial success to the fact that they've their full 10%, often with a fair amount of self-righteousness. I guess I should attribute the fact that I've struggled over the years in providing for my family to not tithing... oh wait, we did, faithfully for 15 years through thick and thin, even going above that when I was unemployed, for a building project that ended badly.

I have a coworker who struggled when he was younger but has worked hard and saved and is now quite financially comfortable. I guess he can attribute his success to tithing. Actually not, because he's a God-hating agnostic who doesn't give money away.

I don't say those things to knock giving or faith. I have no doubt of God's provision and blessing. We've struggled over the years but have never gone without our basic needs. We still give, because it's right, not because we think God's going to make us rich. I just think that sometimes we get a simplistic idea of how things work based on some cherry picked verses.

Personally I think giving of one's time is actually more valuable, more of a sacrifice. That's where I fall down; I'm a bit selfish with my time. I've seen some retired people give tremendously with their time, and I respect that a lot.

I also spent some time being unemployed due to the factory where I had worked faithfully for 20 years closed down. To me its a simply matter of what you have as opposed to what is going out. If I have for example $2500.00 worth of bills a month and $2550.00 coming in its pretty easy to see that I don't have much income left. So, how do I possibly give 10%? Ok, 10% off the top of the $2500.00 is $250.00 and now I'm in the hole bills don't get paid and I loose my home or automobile or cannot put food on the table.

I've heard from some pasters that "the more I give the more I will receive" I don't see that happening and I for one will not give simply so that I may receive. If A-B=C , C doesn't change magically just because you would like it to. My employer has seen fit not to give anyone at the shop a raise in 11 years so A is going to be constant and B is going to change which results in C being smaller yet. So, since I don't have the extra 10% to give I give of my time and talents which to me are a valuable asset and worth the same as a cash contribution. I doubt that God is going to have St. Peter sitting at the gate with a calculator doing the math to see if John or Joe gave a full 10% or not.

[Char-Gar]

What a ridiculous comment. Lets try to stay on the subject please. Char-Gar has as much right to express his opinion as anyone else here.

Was I insulted and just to stupid to know it?

[nh7792]

I had an LDS bishop tell me years ago that you can only give what you can give, regardless of what people say or expect. He did go into great detail about what the $$ is used for and where it goes, and that really floored me. You'd think new churches and temples, but the majority is to helping low income families, natural disaster aid, and their canneries and food manufacturing places that in turn help low income folks.
Your Deity will love you regardless of what % you give. (Can't say the same for the priest/bishop/whatever, asking for the $$)

[lefty o]

I also spent some time being unemployed due to the factory where I had worked faithfully for 20 years closed down. To me its a simply matter of what you have as opposed to what is going out. If I have for example $2500.00 worth of bills a month and $2550.00 coming in its pretty easy to see that I don't have much income left. So, how do I possibly give 10%? Ok, 10% off the top of the $2500.00 is $250.00 and now I'm in the hole bills don't get paid and I loose my home or automobile or cannot put food on the table.

I've heard from some pasters that "the more I give the more I will receive" I don't see that happening and I for one will not give simply so that I may receive. If A-B=C , C doesn't change magically just because you would like it to. My employer has seen fit not to give anyone at the shop a raise in 11 years so A is going to be constant and B is going to change which results in C being smaller yet. So, since I don't have the extra 10% to give I give of my time and talents which to me are a valuable asset and worth the same as a cash contribution. I doubt that God is going to have St. Peter sitting at the gate with a calculator doing the math to see if John or Joe gave a full 10% or not.

im pretty sure your safe from someone checking on if you gave 10% or not at the pearly gate. however those that harass, and cajole( you know the whole robbing god bs) people into that 10% in the name of the lord are going to have some serious problems!

[popper]

Didn't God give us the 10 commandments? And didn't one say "Thou shalt not kill?" Uh, don't MURDER. Didn't say you could't appreciate a beautiful woman either, just don't 'covet' them. Yes, David did have those problems BUT was still 'forgiven' to an extent. Which brings up another 'problem' for New/Old separatists.

[Char-Gar]

Didn't God give us the 10 commandments? And didn't one say "Thou shalt not kill?" Uh, don't MURDER. Didn't say you could't appreciate a beautiful woman either, just don't 'covet' them. Yes, David did have those problems BUT was still 'forgiven' to an extent. Which brings up another 'problem' for New/Old separatists.

Read the Sermon on the Mount given by Jesus. This was the central core of his ethical teachings. In that he gave a new slant on the old Law (Commandments). To the Jew the strict adherence to the letter of the law was all that was needed. Jesus said that we need to go beyond to letter of the law to the spirit of the law as well.The condition of your heart and spirit could be as bad as an actual violation of the law. Intentions and thinking really do matter, as much as obedience to the law.

[max it]

hi, i couldnt read it all but i must comment;
as a bible believing member of the kingdom of God and his Christ.
giving is good.
'tithe' is from a time when there were no taxes (maybe that was the tax Abe gave Melchizedek? if so it was not an arm and a leg but on gold and silver and booty.
'tithe' in OT was not on land, or medicine, or insurance because simply it wasn't needed. O land, well everyone had it by conquest, and even if they lost it the Jubilee returned it every 50 years. need i say more?

[fatelk]

I also spent some time being unemployed due to the factory where I had worked faithfully for 20 years closed down. To me its a simply matter of what you have as opposed to what is going out. If I have for example $2500.00 worth of bills a month and $2550.00 coming in its pretty easy to see that I don't have much income left. So, how do I possibly give 10%? Ok, 10% off the top of the $2500.00 is $250.00 and now I'm in the hole bills don't get paid and I loose my home or automobile or cannot put food on the table.

I’m in the same boat, or very similar at least. There are some who would say that we should take a leap of faith and give that 10% off the top, even if it means going into debt and forgoing retirement and helping family. They say that God will provide and those things will take care of themselves, somehow. Maybe that’s true. I don’t know. Maybe I do need stronger faith. Most likely.

When our pastor preached on giving he talked about tithing, and gently chastised those who say they can’t afford to give, but drive new cars all the time, eat out a lot, take nice vacations, etc.. they have no money to give because they spend it all on themselves and aren’t willing to sacrifice.

I may be mistaken but you sound much like myself, in that you really want to do the right thing and are bothered and feel maybe a tinge of guilt that they may be right and more is required of you than you think you can do. You probably respect church leadership and don’t lightly reject church teaching. Maybe you worry that you’re just trying to justify what you want. Or maybe I’m just assuming that because it’s what I went through.

Anyhow, I actually talked to my pastor one time (in conversation on a trip to the range) and he basically said that since we are so frugal and still give some, he didn’t think it was reasonable to go into debt or forgo essentials just to meet that magic 10%, and he does believe in a literal tithe.

If you’re giving what you can, involved and helping as you can, I think you’re doing great. That’s just me though, and I’ve been wrong before.

[AK Caster]

Thread is comical at times. Whats going to happen to you if you decide not to give 10%. Are you going to hell? What if you give 9.5%?
I would love to see a honest survey of ministers, preists, etc to see how much of their salary they give to the church.

[fatelk]

That’s why the thread is in the “Deep theological discussions” sub forum. We’ve all got different beliefs and opinions, and we’re not going to all agree, but it is interesting to discuss.

Maybe some do believe they’ll go to hell if they don’t follow the letter of the law, maybe some just sincerely want to do the right thing. I know some think it’s all foolishness, but that’s not what the thread is about.

[dkf]

I now have a better understanding how the large number of big fancy churches in my area stay in business. I also understand how there are so many horrible people I know whom are in church every Sunday figure they are still going to heaven despite their horribleness. They figure they can just buy their way to heaven, it seems that is what they are told and believe.

[marshall623]

We as a family pay our Tithes , I can also say that we can do more with the 90% than with the 100% . I believe that you cant out give God . God has always made a way when things get tough , even as a young single Christian when the truck need repair or tires or other bills, even when work was slow there was always O.T. that popped up . God said he would open up the windows of heaven and pour out his blessings on us . I give God praise for he is going to do for my family and we stand upon his word . I'm not going to say that is my 2 cents , but it is what I believe with my whole heart. I recommend give what you can and watch God do the rest. Gods blessings are just money and material things , but safety and his protection , health , and even the deer and game in our freezer .

[lefty o]

I now have a better understanding how the large number of big fancy churches in my area stay in business. I also understand how there are so many horrible people I know whom are in church every Sunday figure they are still going to heaven despite their horribleness. They figure they can just buy their way to heaven, it seems that is what they are told and believe.

there is a mighty big chunk of truth to what you said!