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Thread: potassium permanganate based substitute for black?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    potassium permanganate based substitute for black?

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...bstitute/page2

    reading this thread i wondered about KNO4 and sugar based fuels with burn rates similar to BP. do such exist?

  2. #2
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    there is sugar based black powder, you need to use fruit sugar and not beet or cane for best results. instead of experimenting with stuff that is ok but not the best, read the sticky on making your own black powder in the muzzleloading area. they give you everything you need to make powder on par with swiss, including the best places to buy the raw ingredients. if you follow the advice its safe and for most the final cost is like 3 bucks a pound for good quality black powder.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Arent sugar and permanganate used as incindiary balls to start fires for hazard burning.?.....glycerine and permanganate .When we were kids we had a large supply of potassium bromate,mixed with fine sugar it was a passable ...........,however it was verrry corrosive.And a bit unpredictable,it turned a cannon made of heavy ammonia tube into a cartoon gun,and I think we were lucky to escape uninjured.

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    Glycerine and Permanganate are used for incendiary balls, among other things (I think they use propylene glycol too iirc?) I'm not into fire fighting so not an expert on those. There are lots of old formulas in the formularies but there are good reasons BP is the main thing people used - Cost and performance. Just be smart if you make your own, no "Here, hold my beer!" moments, ok?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    On a slightly different subject,ammon.nitrate and carbon black have been long known as a substitute,but the mix is subject to various problems...However ,I imagine the problems are solved,and the mix is on the market under some name or other...Anyone know what?

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    We used to use those permanganate “fire balls” to set controlled burns using a helicopter and a very expensive dispenser machine! A shot of plain old antifreeze(ethylene glycol type) in one of these fire balls, drop it in a forest floor full of fuel and in about 2-3 minutes you had a fire! For a while! Safe to handle till you injected it with antifreeze! Then you better not let it set around! As for black powder, I’m not fooling with making it! You guys have fun. I’m going to buy mine, if I ever need some. Just my .02
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    Strong oxidizers (anything that ends in -ate) will oxidize ANYTHING with carbon in it. Newspaper, leaves, sugar, anti-freeze etc. There are some common explosive mixtures that use KMno4 as the base. I wouldn't mess with trying to use it as a BP substitute, because it might not have the stable properties you need.

    When I worked in a hospital back when I was in college, I met a guy who thought it would be a great idea to make a bomb, while his wife and kids were gone on vacation. He was missing three fingers on his right hand, two fingers on his left, and his spleen. When his long-suffering wife came to visit, she had the most perplexed look on her face.

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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    The only thing I would use Potasium Permanganate for is to darken Gun Stocks.Mixed with Water to whatever consistency required it will turn plain timber into a wonderful colour.An oil finish on top looks good.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    permangenate and fine mesh aluinum powder makes a good binary that will go off with cannon fuse or electrical igniters like rocket motor starters. i suppose controlling burn rate is an issue when trying to use it in a propellant.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    777 is sugar based.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Years ago,my aged great aunt got "shingles" and had to soak in permanganate.."condys crystals"....stains everything organic brown,or black.....wowed the other kids at school.

  12. #12
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    They also can be used to kill foot fungus and etc., I am told. You don't need much, like 1/4 teaspoon in a gallon of warm water. Maybe half that. I haven't tried it (other than adding glycerine to start fires "magically")

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    All those old remedies actually worked without costing millions.My aunt had a simple theory.......if it doesnt hurt like blue blazes, it aint doing any good.....She loved carbolic acid,had gallons of the stuff for"emergencies".....and cleanliness and disinfectant.....

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Years ago,my aged great aunt got "shingles" and had to soak in permanganate.."condys crystals"....stains everything organic brown,or black.....wowed the other kids at school.
    turns water fountains in parks and schools purple. don't ask how i know...

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy AllanD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Arent sugar and permanganate used as incindiary balls to start fires for hazard burning.?.....glycerine and permanganate .When we were kids we had a large supply of potassium bromate,mixed with fine sugar it was a passable ...........,however it was verrry corrosive.And a bit unpredictable,it turned a cannon made of heavy ammonia tube into a cartoon gun,and I think we were lucky to escape uninjured.
    Permanganate and Glycerine are pyrophoric, meaning getting permanganate wet with glycerine spontaneously combust, the more finely divided the permanganate the faster the reaction.
    It will react the same way with undiluted automotive anti-freeze


    Potassium Permanganate used to be used as a component of photographers "flash powder" and is a favored oxidizer formany chemical reacions because if tend to not create hazardous or toxic combustion products.

    The easy way to obtain potassium Permanganate is from a Pool supply or water treatment supply, as it is commonly used to remove oxides of Iron and Hydrogen Sulfide from Drinking water.
    Last edited by AllanD; 12-12-2017 at 04:39 PM.

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    Please let Us know either what hospital You will be in Or what Parlor You will be At so we can send Flowers
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  17. #17
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    Forty two years ago come next Feb .....teen girl killed ,more than 20 seriously injured when home made permanganate and ally flash powder goes wrong at Roadvale ,Qld.dance.......rock.n. roll band wanted show to" end with a bang ".

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    This is what happens when you confine potassium permanganate / aluminum

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bpoeJPUeQqo
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  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy AllanD's Avatar
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    I've had both Aluminum powder and magnesium powder Ignite on me without trying to mix it with oxidizers

    Magnesium will sometimes Ignite in reaction with Humid air.

    Dampened aluminum can sometimes be ignited with a match.

    Because finely powdered aluminum or Magnesium kept un-corroded will "steal" Oxygen from water liberating hydrogen.
    which in turn is so easy to ignite that rubbing a balloon filled with the stuff against your sweater (to demonstrate
    Static electricity) can cause it to IGNITE

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