Is a wadcutter a wadcutter?

[Dale53]

Regarding WC brass...
It isn't the cannelure that is the problem, non-WC brass often has walls that are thicker as the case wall approaches the base. Thicker enough that it sizes the cast bullet base to undersize. THAT can lead to leading and inaccuracy.

WC brass walls remain thin below the base of the seated bullet. However, some modern "standard" .38 cases have case walls that are thin enough, down far enough, that it isn't a problem. I understand that present Starline cases work just fine with wadcutter bullets.

NOTE: Cast solid base wadcutters are shorter than the same weight in a hollow base. So-o-o-o, solid base wadcutters may not present the same problems as hollow base wadcutters (which in WC cases may shoot a bit more accurately than solid base wadcutters).

Me, I shoot a lot of wadcutters but they are all home cast bullets. My most shot wadcutters are from an original H&G #50 BB four cavity wadcutter mold. They shoot well under 1" at 25 yards off a rest, and that is accurate enough for me. I put my time and effort into SHOOTING (once I find a good load) and do NOT continually try to find some combination that will shoot 1/16" better at my chosen distance.

But, that is just me...

The above, in NO way, is intended in criticism of those who like to experiment on improving their load accuracy.

In recent years, I have been shooting mixed .38 brass simply so I can spend more time shooting and less time worrying about minutiae...

My rationale is that shooting time will lead to improvement in target performance far greater than trying to chase my tail hoping to "buy" a better score.

Again, that is just me...

FWIW
Dale53

[OS OK]

Yeah, I'm aware of this. The weak link in the chain is the length & diameter of the expander plug. I have an old RCBS .357" expander/decapper plug that will go deep enough into the case to compensate for the Lyman FWC (not deep enough for the Lee though), the rub with that unit is that it is .354" on the deep end of the expander and that is a diameter made for jacketed projectiles.
I've looked at the NOA expanders and can't tell without buying one what they'd do.
I would imagine that at least 1/2 the brassstuffers around that have their WC cases are expanding with the wrong expanders for the diameter of their cast anyway.
I suppose that if you went to a hollow base WC and shot it soft enough to obturate that it would solve the problem.

[brewer12345]

Interesting stuff. I find that my DEWCs shot best with a higher charge than real powder puff (3.8 grains of HP38). I wonder if the peppier load I use is more accurate because it helps the squeezed bullets obturate better? In any case, with (very) mixed 38 brass and a relatively easy/drama free loading process I get excellent accuracy so no worries.

For me the main benefit of HBWCs is that I can load them very light and still get good accuracy. 3.2 grains of HP38 and flush seating is accurate and very soft. I suspect I could go even lighter. Perhaps when I next need to load some up I will experiment with a 3 grain load.

[DerekP Houston]

Interesting stuff. I find that my DEWCs shot best with a higher charge than real powder puff (3.8 grains of HP38). I wonder if the peppier load I use is more accurate because it helps the squeezed bullets obturate better? In any case, with (very) mixed 38 brass and a relatively easy/drama free loading process I get excellent accuracy so no worries.

For me the main benefit of HBWCs is that I can load them very light and still get good accuracy. 3.2 grains of HP38 and flush seating is accurate and very soft. I suspect I could go even lighter. Perhaps when I next need to load some up I will experiment with a 3 grain load.

for hp38 I've been using ~3.1gr. The lee autodisk .30 hole worked perfect for my setup, now with the hornady powder measure I can do more fine tuning.

[tazman]

Petrol and Powder, Could this effect be moderated by not seating the WC as deeply? Certainly the pistol could limit this as to how far out the WC could be seated. Additional space and fast powder could offset each other.

Your idea is correct. If you seat the wadcutter out to the oal of a standard semi wadcutter you do away with the case sizing the base of the bullet smaller. The Lyman 358432 was designed for that very purpose and works well. You can also crimp the full wadcutter in one of the top lube grooves and accomplish the same thing.

[deltaenterprizes]

The WC brass has parallel walls from the mouth of the case down to about the base of the seated WC bullet. The standard 38 Special case is more tapered. Even with the expanding operation, a standard 38 Special casing will likely size the base of a WC bullet down to a smaller diameter. Because the full WC bullet is seated deeper in the casing than a regular bullet, the WC casings prevent the lower portions of the WC bullet from being sized down.

I was a bit skeptical of this as well but older/wiser members of this forum led me in the right direction. The expander on most 38 Special sizing dies will not expand the casing far enough (deep enough) to handle the entire WC bullet and even if it does; the thicker/tapered walls of a standard 38 Special casing will still thwart that effort.

The cannelure is an indicator of WC brass. The real difference isn't the second cannelure but rather the straight walls of the casing near the mouth.

I verified that by cutting a piece of wadcutter brass long ways and there is no taper to the head of the case!

[OS OK]

Here's an excellent read about Wad Cutters from one of our own...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-in-a-Model-27

Mentored by Ed Harris & 75K WC's under his belt...I'd say he knew what he wrote of.

[tazman]

Interesting stuff. I find that my DEWCs shot best with a higher charge than real powder puff (3.8 grains of HP38). I wonder if the peppier load I use is more accurate because it helps the squeezed bullets obturate better?

Many people have found that to be true. I am not certain if it as, like you said, the boolits obdurate better at higher pressures or if they stabilize better at slightly higher velocity.
Many competitors use faster loads to get their scores up for the 50 yard range. Light load wadcutters are notorious for becoming unstable beyond 25 yards in some handguns.

[Petrol & Powder]

Petrol and Powder, Could this effect be moderated by not seating the WC as deeply? Certainly the pistol could limit this as to how far out the WC could be seated. Additional space and fast powder could offset each other.

Perhaps but one of the advantages of seating a wadcutter deep in the case is to reduce that extra volume and use that small powder charge more efficiently.

[tazman]

Perhaps but one of the advantages of seating a wadcutter deep in the case is to reduce that extra volume and use that small powder charge more efficiently.

While it does do that, I always thought seating the wadcutter deep was so it could be used in a semi-auto handgun such as the 1911 and S&W 52.

[Jack Stanley]

At the longer distances I think the wadcutters with the slight button nose work a little better . At the twenty-five yard line I don't think it matters near as much .


Jack