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Thread: CVA center fire in 444

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    I was looking at a .450 Marlin barrel for my Savage. I'd like a .45-70 or .444 Marlin equivalent in a bolt gun.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master

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    I think .450 Marlin brass is likely even more rare than .444 brass.

    olDuece's .44-06 is basically a .444 rimless long. Lots of brass for that or the .308 version. Only downside is headspacing on the case mouth and I'm not sure that is much of a downside. Lots of cartridges headspace on the case mouth.

    Alternately .458 x 2" is an easy conversion too and lots of belted brass around in that head size.

    .45-70 has been done in Siamese Mausers and Lee Enfields but I doubt it would fit the Savage action easily.

    I'm kinda liking the idea of .444 rimless myself. Another nice one I think would be to open up .223 brass to straight wall and make rimless .357 Mag... a little off thread topic.

    These CVA's are looking nicer and nicer. I might have to find room for one in the gun safe.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Yep, a .458 WM is an option too for a long action. Don't really care how rare the cases are. A hundred would do for me for life.

    Don't like the idea of headspacing on the case mouth for rifles, especially push feed type.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master

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    Yeah, .458 x 2" or .458 Win would both be good choices and common brass.

    I get a bit stuck on the "available brass" bit but you are right. Once cartridges are made or purchased they will have a long life.

    I just don't like stuff that is hard to get and .444 brass and .450 marlin brass are not too common... around here anyway.

    .458 x 2" could be made from about any standard belted round and while .458 Win might be larger than most need, if it fits the action it can be downloaded for cast boolits and factory brass is readily available.

    I have never had a gun chambered for a round that headspaces on the case mouth but there are lots around ~ .450 Bushmaster being a recent and pretty popular one. If brass is thick then it should be no problem but thin brass might just present some issues.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master OlDeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Yeah, .458 x 2" or .458 Win would both be good choices and common brass.

    I get a bit stuck on the "available brass" bit but you are right. Once cartridges are made or purchased they will have a long life.

    I just don't like stuff that is hard to get and .444 brass and .450 marlin brass are not too common... around here anyway.

    .458 x 2" could be made from about any standard belted round and while .458 Win might be larger than most need, if it fits the action it can be downloaded for cast boolits and factory brass is readily available.

    I have never had a gun chambered for a round that headspaces on the case mouth but there are lots around ~ .450 Bushmaster being a recent and pretty popular one. If brass is thick then it should be no problem but thin brass might just present some issues.
    Do you think the bolt face could be re-worked and the chamber so it could handle the rimmed case ???? The actions are way strong comparing to a lever gun, etc........

    Ol Deuce
    Do the Best with What you have !

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    IMHO, rimmed cases are for single shots/doubles and levers. Bolt and semi-auto guns are for rimless, necked or belted.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master OlDeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    IMHO, rimmed cases are for single shots/doubles and levers. Bolt and semi-auto guns are for rimless, necked or belted.
    Oh ....never gave that much thought!! Hmmmm

    Ol Deuce
    Do the Best with What you have !

  8. #48
    OlDeuce,

    wasn't there somebody, i think he is or was a top guy at noe or accurate molds, that did a 444-06 in a bolt gun?

    then again, i could be wrong!!!

  9. #49
    Boolit Master OlDeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 500Linebaughbuck View Post
    OlDeuce,

    wasn't there somebody, i think he is or was a top guy at noe or accurate molds, that did a 444-06 in a bolt gun?

    then again, i could be wrong!!!
    Not sure... it would be wild if Someone with a 444-06 bolt gun would chime in and tell us about how it functions !!!!! And who Did it!!!

    Ol Deuce
    Do the Best with What you have !

  10. #50
    heres a few, google 444 marlin rimless

    http://www.rubiconownersforum.com/fo...44-marlin.html

    http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/44...ess-444-a.html

    i found the name of the guy who did a 444 marlin rimless, it was walt melander, he used to president of nei molds.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I agree that single shots should shoot rimmed brass. It just seems to fit.

    Maybe it is pure luck that my 2 best shooters are the .357mag and the .444marlin.

    Going to have to figure out how to get a Handi rifle in .32SW Long one of these days too.
    Yeah its rimmed. And quiet.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    I don't disagree that any action type can fire a rimmed or rimless equally well. It is just a hangup for me.

    And then there are the partly rimmed or rebated rimless

  13. #53
    Boolit Master OlDeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    I agree that single shots should shoot rimmed brass. It just seems to fit.

    Maybe it is pure luck that my 2 best shooters are the .357mag and the .444marlin.

    Going to have to figure out how to get a Handi rifle in .32SW Long one of these days too.
    Yeah its rimmed. And quiet.
    The 32WS long ??? thats the same as the New 327Mag??
    Do the Best with What you have !

  14. #54
    Boolit Master

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    Not sure about the Savage bolt face.

    If a belted cartridge will fit then certainly a small rim will fit but I don't know about .444 diameter rim. No experience there.

    .444, .303 British or .30-40 Krag could be used as a parent cartridge, trimmed and blown out as required then rims turned down but that would be a lot of work.

    The Siamese Mauser and Lee Enfields were designed for rimmed cartridges as were the 7.62 x 54's so fairly easy conversions for those.

    Single shots should also be easy.

    In a bolt gun the cartridge OAL would be more important than with a bottleneck cartridge in the sense that on overlength cartridge could be chambered resulting in "crimping" the cartridge hard into the boolit/bullet causing in high pressure. So consistent/correct cartridge length would be a little more important... but again, there are a number of cartridges that do headspace on the case mouth so...?

    Just my thoughts.

    Longbow

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    I looked at a CVA yesterday in 7mm-08. I like the light weight and balance, not fond of the opening lever location. At Academy with a scope for $229; seems like a deal to me.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    Same here. As much as I booed and hissed when I first saw New Englands move to the "push button" opener, I came to appreciate it muchos. Made a tang site possible.
    "What makes you think I care" ........High Plains Drifter

    Rick C.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master bdicki's Avatar
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    Lee uses the same shell holder as a 44 mag, RCBS uses a separate holder and Lyman uses the same as a 44-40
    http://www.handloads.com/misc/shellholders.asp

  17. #57
    Boolit Master OlDeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Not sure about the Savage bolt face.

    If a belted cartridge will fit then certainly a small rim will fit but I don't know about .444 diameter rim. No experience there.

    .444, .303 British or .30-40 Krag could be used as a parent cartridge, trimmed and blown out as required then rims turned down but that would be a lot of work.

    The Siamese Mauser and Lee Enfields were designed for rimmed cartridges as were the 7.62 x 54's so fairly easy conversions for those.

    Single shots should also be easy.

    In a bolt gun the cartridge OAL would be more important than with a bottleneck cartridge in the sense that on overlength cartridge could be chambered resulting in "crimping" the cartridge hard into the boolit/bullet causing in high pressure. So consistent/correct cartridge length would be a little more important... but again, there are a number of cartridges that do headspace on the case mouth so...?

    Just my thoughts.

    Longbow
    I had a problem fire forming the 30-40 brass in the .444 chamber ! I split 8 cases just above the webb!!!!! Ol Deuce
    Do the Best with What you have !

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by OlDeuce View Post
    I had a problem fire forming the 30-40 brass in the .444 chamber ! I split 8 cases just above the webb!!!!! Ol Deuce

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

    never fireform the holy 30-40 krag!!!

    i used to use 303 brass to do my 30-40 krag. this was back before there was no such thing as internet. now i believe graffs has 30-40 krag brass.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master

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    .44 Rhino was something like 445 Supermag and formed from .30-40 Krag brass shortened and blown out but I'm thinking the head size is a bit smaller than .444 Marlin so the .444 chamber is likely too large for .30-40 Krag or .303 British to be used as brass for .444. So not too surprising that cases might fail when fireformed in a .444 chamber. You'd need a smaller chamber reamer for those to make a wildcat. In fact my understanding is that .30-40 Krag is slightly larger at the head than .303 British but I don't have info in front of me right now.

    .303 British has been blown out to .40+ caliber and I believe up to .44 so I have to think that .30-40 Krag has too. But again in a tighter chamber than .444.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master OlDeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    .44 Rhino was something like 445 Supermag and formed from .30-40 Krag brass shortened and blown out but I'm thinking the head size is a bit smaller than .444 Marlin so the .444 chamber is likely too large for .30-40 Krag or .303 British to be used as brass for .444. So not too surprising that cases might fail when fireformed in a .444 chamber. You'd need a smaller chamber reamer for those to make a wildcat. In fact my understanding is that .30-40 Krag is slightly larger at the head than .303 British but I don't have info in front of me right now.

    .303 British has been blown out to .40+ caliber and I believe up to .44 so I have to think that .30-40 Krag has too. But again in a tighter chamber than .444.
    tHE 44MAG CHAMBER IS GOOD for the 30-40 and any thing based off the 44 .......that .444 chamber is just a bit fatter and will get that 30-40 brass the
    splits haha even with BP ......!!!! Ol Deuce
    Do the Best with What you have !

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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