30-30 Questions

[JasonG]

Hi all and thank you in advance for any help with my questions. First off I am a new member here and this is my first post. I have read and gathered information here in the past however as a non-member.

Breifly I’ll say that I don’t have years of experience in casting bullets but I do have have some. Until last year I was only casting round ball for my various muzzleloaders. Now I cast 45’s and 38’s for my competitive pistols and it is that work that has lead me to here.

I own a 1972 Winchester Model 94 in .30-30 Win. I have never cast bullets for center fire rifle before. I do not want to use a gas check - I know nothing of them and don’t want to take the time to instal them and such. I have hopes of casting a 150gr bullet and using IMR 4064 as I have plenty of it - for hunting loads accurate out to 100 yards. Is this doable with the powder I have? Can it be done without a gas check? I don’t have a mold yet so if my bullet weight needs to change that’s doable. I have a lot of 4064 because I use it in my 7x57mm that I load for but I use jacketed bullets in it. I’d like to use cast for the 30-30.

[ShooterAZ]

Hi Jason,

Welcome to Cast Boolits. First off, no you don't need a gas check. You will most likely find however that you'll get better accuracy/performance using one. I assume that you will be sizing your boolits anyway, so the addition of a gas check during the sizing/lubing process is no big deal. Without a gas check you will be limiting your velocity to somewhere in the neighborhood of 1600fps +/-. 4064 powder probably wouldn't be the ideal powder to use for this velocity range in the 30-30. I recommend the Lee C309-150F or Lee C309-170F molds if you are just starting out and are on a budget. I hope this helps.

[725]

Welcome aboard! Agree w/ above. Gas check are not necessary, but would improve your performance from a .30-30. If you go without a GC, I would probably look into a slightly heavier boolit, with harder consistency, going slower. The 311041 was specifically designed for the .30-30 and is a proven winner. NOE has some beautiful clones of that boolit. Hopefully, Larry Gibson will chime in and you'll get some very authoritative information. Best of luck.

[JasonG]

Thank you 725 and ShooterAZ. More info to help: I currently don’t own a luber/sizer and I so I size my bullets on a Lee single stage press using a Lee push through sizing die and I tumble lube my bullets using Lee Liquid Allox. Thanks again. Perhaps I need to shop for a different powder. Problem is I have eight pounds of 4064!

[ShooterAZ]

The Lee push through sizer is perfectly capable of seating your gas checks, no problems there, or with using LLA.

[Wayne Smith]

Look at the boolit design. Boolits designed for gas checks tend to be much more accurate with than without them. Boolits designed flat based are designed to be used without gas checks. If you want to go relatively high velocity you will want a GC design and put them on. It is not a problem putting them on, just do it with your fingers and tap your boolit on the bench before you size. Job done.

[chutesnreloads]

Suggest using a gas check just to save yourself some headache.The Lee molds are cheap and you can always try those without the checks.

[Larry Gibson]

"I have hopes of casting a 150gr bullet and using IMR 4064 as I have plenty of it - for hunting loads accurate out to 100 yards. Is this doable with the powder I have? Can it be done without a gas check?"

Sure...."it can be done" .....just that you won't hit anything is all. By the time you get 4064 up to a pressure, even with a Dacron filler, the velocity will be way above what a PB'd cast bullet can handle for accuracy. GC's are easily installed, the time needed is inconsequential compared to the frustration from lack of performance without them and some are not that expensive. The 311041 style bullet (Lyman, Lee or NOE) are your best bets. Also if you get some Bullseye powder you can use the 311041s sans the GC over 5 to 5.5 gr for a plinking small game load.

[rintinglen]

I have loaded thousands of 30-30 rounds, and a great many were loaded with plain base, but only light loads were used: 8 grains of Unique or Herco with a 95 grain 311-245. My observation is that the smaller the caliber, the harder it is to get plain based boollits to shoot well at hunting velocities. However, you put a gas check on, which is easy to do with your present equipment and you'll be hunting deer for the cost of a box or two of factory ammunition and shooting more, much more for the same money.
For your purposes, I will join the chorus and recommend either the 311-041 or the Lee 150 or 170 grain boolits. Start the gas check by hand, then insert the boolit base first up into the sizer and slowly bring the ram up while you guide the boolit onto the center of the ram and then just push it through. Repeat til you run out of boolits, gas checks, time or patience. Tumble lube again, then dry and load. 28-30 grains of your 4064 should give an accurate, game worthy load.

[RogerDat]

Those semi flat nosed bullet designs such as the Lee 170 F work well with feeding the bullet base first through the Lee push through sizer to seat the gas checks.

Since the ram is pushing on the nose a pointy bullet will tend to get a tiny flat spot on the tip. Doesn't hurt anything but if the bullet is already flat nosed as it should be for a tubular magazine it is easier to guide in and already has a flat spot for the ram to push against.

The amount of additional time and work to add gas checks is minor, the cost is ~ $25 per 1,000 so no great expense. At least that has been my experience with the 8x57 mm and .223 cast boolits. Well those little .223 buggers are a bit of a hassle to handle being so small. but no more so than just sizing them is.

[ShooterAZ]

You don't need to feed them base first through the Lee sizer. The gas checks will seat just fine sizing/seating nose-first.

[John Boy]

The gas checks will seat just fine sizing/seating nose-first.

But if the bullets are spitzers doing this way, the bullets end up having a metplat

[ShooterAZ]

Agreed, but I don’t think he wants to load spitzers for his Win 94 30/30. Flat or RN only.


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[JasonG]

Thank you very much everybody. It seems like I’ll be toying with some gaschecks after all once I settle on a mold. Thank you very much to everyone’s input. It is appreciated and was very helpful.

[Gewehr-Guy]

When you order your mould, don't forget to get a Lyman M-die or NOE neck expander plug for a Lee neck exp. die. They insure the bullet goes in straight without shaving lead or further reducing the bullet dia. because of a too tight neck. I've had great luck with the Lee 170 mould, at $22 a great bargain.

[dverna]

You have received good advice about using gas checks.
3031 may be a better choice than 4064.

[Lonegun1894]

When you order your mould, don't forget to get a Lyman M-die or NOE neck expander plug for a Lee neck exp. die. They insure the bullet goes in straight without shaving lead or further reducing the bullet dia. because of a too tight neck. I've had great luck with the Lee 170 mould, at $22 a great bargain.

You beat me to it. I use the Lee Universal Expander, and it works just fine. But as long as you use something to expand the case mouth to prevent shaving, it makes life much easier.

[KenH]

You have received good advice about using gas checks.
3031 may be a better choice than 4064.

Listen to the man - 4064 is NOT a good powder for cast with 30-30, just not enough pressure to get a good clean burn. Pick up a lb of 3031 and you'll be MUCH happier.... and GCs. Yes, you WILL need an expander die.

[JasonG]

What size sizing die should I buy? I could slug my bore and find out I guess...

[quail4jake]

Pound slug the throat and fit to the throat diameter. Check out LBT, Veral Smith, he can send you slugs and instruction on how to do it.