Hunting load for .45acp (rifle carbine) ??

[kens]

Can anyone post experience with a 45acp load for a carbine rifle?
We all know that a pistol cartridge fired out of a 16" rifle barrel does gain velocity & energy; but those are with standard pistol powder loads.
What is there to gain if you worked up a load using a carbine rifle powder? (16" barrel per-se)
I'm thinking of .45acp loaded with 2400, 4227, Longshot, or similar slower powder.

Does anyone have noted load data or experience with such a load?

[runfiverun]

the slow pistol powders ain't efficient in the 45 acp cases.
800-X is about as far down the ladder as you can realistically go.

[richhodg66]

There's a thread posted just yesterday of a hog kill with a Hi Point carbine, take a look at that. Looked to me like the old .45 ACP is a better hunting cartridge than usually given credit for.

[spfd1903]

Don't know what velocities you are looking for, but I recently loaded some Lee TL 452-230-RN from with some Accurate #7 from Western Powders load data edition 6.0. Yielded 1" groups at 30 feet and velocity of 900 fps (at 10') from an ATI 1911, 4" barrel. Fired them through a Hi-Point carbine and got 1180 fps.

[jcren]

I killed a hog with a hi point 45 acp. Used my light loads of 4.6 of red dot under a Lee 200 rf, chrono 980. Shot it from 70 yards, broke the shoulder and spine and left a nickel sized exit wound. Btw, my hot load of 9 grains of hs-6 runs 1250.

[GhostHawk]

I have not hunted with mine like jcren has, but I load my .45acp with 4.5 to 5.5 grains of Red Dot under a 230 gr cast bullet.

I did recently buy a Hipoint Carbine in .45acp. In part because at need I knew I had over 400 rounds of loaded ammo for it around the house. Plus molds, dies, brass, everything but the gun in fact. I have a 25 lb box of .45acp range pickup brass. I would never have to pick up a spent brass either at the range or afield.

As for hunting. In a pistol those loads would be I expect in the high 800's to mid 900's range I expect. In a carbine you could be looking at 1200 to 1300 fps. You ain't going to stop one with a single hog, deer, bear unless you hit some big bones.

Heavier gun, less felt recoil, faster follow up shots. I don't think superman could take 3 of those to the chest in 3 seconds and keep coming. Just my opinion.

[kens]

yes, I read the posts about the Hi-point carbine & the game shot.
It got me thinking that I have a Marlin Camp 45, it would make a good hiking gun should I run across a feral hog.
Does the Camp 45 and the Hi-point breech lockup similar?

[Geezer in NH]

Camp 45 is blow back action

[kens]

Camp 45 is blow back action

what is the Hi-point? blow back?

[Larry Gibson]

My current load is 7.3 gr Unique under a soft cast 452490 GC SWC at 245 gr. It runs 1250 fps out of my 16 1/4" barrel. I've been working on a load using that same bullet loaded over BlueDot. Preliminary testing shows 1400+ fps but testing is not complete.

Note this is with a bolt action. Semi auto blow back actions won't take these kinds of loads. The recoil impulse is why. Exceed that and the action will get beat to death. A +P load such as 7.3 to 7.5 gr Unique under a 200 gr SWC will be max for semi auto blow back actions.

Attachment 208985

[kens]

There is an srticle on the internet about a guy that took a bolt action 45acp and ran the pressures up,
he ran up pressures until the brass gave out, then switched to steel cases and blew those up.
By this time he was turning in impressive velocities.

But, my OP is not about running up pressures, but rather, holding existing 'standard' pressures over a longer time, i.e. a 16" barrel vs 5" barrel.
that is why I am questioning blue dot, 2400, 4227 etc. and, yes in a blowback action.

edit: I like to add that this OP is not directed at functioning in a 1911, it is directed at functioning a carbine length barrel.
At this point I don't care if a pistol cycles, this is a 16" barrel proposition.

[dg31872]

Larry, your rifle is interesting. I have never seen one like it. What brand is it?

[jcren]

Just to add a bit, I tried blue dot in the hi-point, while I got over 1350 the velocity spread was all over the place and I had a lot of unburned powder. I suspect the 200 grain bullet just wasn't creating enough back pressure. I am looking at a Accurate 250 grain mold that should work better for the slow powders. Also, 100 yard accuracy with the hot loads is not the best. I think that short fat bullet suffers quite a bit when it goes trans sonic. There for, 250+ at 1050-1100 is my goal.

[Outpost75]

This link has some rifle data in a converted Marlin 1894, but I absolutely would not shoot those loads in an M1911 pistol or any blowback-operated carbine. They are safe in the Marlin 1894 and Ruger NM Blackhawk convertible:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/te...s-44-40-a.html

Carbine Velocities .45 ACP+P+ vs. .44-40

I experimented with compressed, full case capacity charges of #2400 loaded in a .45 ACP carbine with 20” barrel. DO NOT try these in an M1911 pistol, but only in the New Model Blackhawk convertible or a suitably strong rifle which supports the case well.

Test loads all assembled in Federal NT cases with Federal 200 small rifle primer.

Control - HM2-453-200FN Cowboy, 5.5 grains old Hercules Bullseye 1054 fps, 4 Sd, 15 ES
(951 fps, 11 Sd, 33 ES in 4-5/8" Ruger BH)

H&G68 200-gr. SWC, 16 grs. old Herc. #2400 1433 fps, 11Sd, 34 ES

Accurate 45-245D, Auto Rim flatnose bullet, 16 grs. old Herc. #2400 1375 fps, 15 Sd, 40 ES.

Cases extracted and ejected easily with no excessive pressure signs, no barrel leading. Bullets cast of wheelweights lubed with Lee Liquid Alox.

The .45 ACP loads fired in the carbine all grouped about 6” for 10-shot groups fired at 100 yards, typical performance for this iron sighted, 5 lb. carbine.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.44-40 loads fired for comparison from 20” Marlin 1894S, Starline cases, CCI300 primers.

Accurate 43-200Q, 15.4 grs. old Herc. #2400 1178 fps, 8 Sd, 23 ES
(Measured with the CVA 20-grain black powder flask! and assembled with Ideal Tong Tool)

Accurate 43-200Q, 6.5 grains old Herc. Bullseye 1142 fps, 12 Sd, 43 ES

Accurate 43-200Q, 7.2 grains old Herc. Bullseye 1284 fps, 22 Sd, 76 ES

Accurate 43-215C, 7.2 grains old Herc. Bullseye 1276 fps, 17 Sd. 56 ES

Accurate 43-200Q, 22.5 grs. Old Herc. RL7, Buffalo Arms card + felt wad to achieve compression 1315 fps, 36 Sd, 133 ES

Iron sight .44-40 groups were also in the 6” range for 10-shots at 100 yards with iron sights.
I find this acceptable performance for an open-sighted lever-action carbine firing handgun ammunition.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, your rifle is interesting. I have never seen one like it. What brand is it?

It's a M98 (Spanish M48) with a Rhineland conversion kit....Fajen stock.

[Larry Gibson]

Just to add a bit, I tried blue dot in the hi-point, while I got over 1350 the velocity spread was all over the place and I had a lot of unburned powder. I suspect the 200 grain bullet just wasn't creating enough back pressure. I am looking at a Accurate 250 grain mold that should work better for the slow powders. Also, 100 yard accuracy with the hot loads is not the best. I think that short fat bullet suffers quite a bit when it goes trans sonic. There for, 250+ at 1050-1100 is my goal.

Agree. Blue Dot does not burn efficiently under a 200 gr cast in the 45 ACP. It seems to be ok with the heavier GC'd cast bullet but only further testing will answer. With jacketed 200 gr or heavier bullets it burns efficiently. I would suspect Unique will still be the best to use in your HiPoint with 1050 fps probable.....but, again, only testing will answer that. BTW; 6 gr Unique under my 245 GC'd SWC runs 1089 fps out of the rifle.

[Shooter6br]

Mech Tec 45 acp conversion

[kens]

cool, but what loads do you have that take advantage of the carbine barrel ?

[dk17hmr]

My bolt action will run a 185gr xtp out with a book load of longshot at almost 1250. I'd expect a 260gr swc to hit almost 1000fps with a standard load. If your carbine can handle 45 super or 450 scm you'd have a pretty viable round for hunting.

[tsubaki]

If it's any help, with 230gr FMJ's and 10.0gr of Blue Dot, I'm averaging 880fps in my 5" XD and 1065fps from my 16.5" Mark 45.