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Thread: Wanting to try PP, need some suggestions

  1. #1

    Wanting to try PP, need some suggestions

    So i've been busy reading Randy W's PPB guide and just fantastic reading. Of course now i'm really wanting to give PP a try. I'm at a crossroads with my 1874 Sharts. Looking to buy 2 custom moulds in the near future either grease or PP. So my barrel slugs at .4495 and .4565. My printer paper measures .0041 so the math calls for a .433 bullet. What would you recommend for a good bullet purchase choice given these dimensions ?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    your printer paper is too thick for the job.
    you need an overall thickness for 2 wraps, of equal to or less than the depth of your rifling.
    thick bullet/thin paper is the adage.
    looks like your rifling is about 0.0035" deep.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Pick up a roll of Seth Cole drafting paper I believe you want the 8 LB white. Its .0018 thickness. Buffalo Arms has onion paper that's good also and is around the .0019 mark. These both cut very good and come off the bullet at the muzzle like you want. They are also easier to work with rolling the patch onto the bullet. My PP 45 mould is .442 when cast from 20-1. So .0018 X 4 = .0072 + .442= .4492 with out the patch thinning any when rolled. This combination work good in all three of my 45 caliber rifles. My PP 45 cal mould is a brooks adjustable cup based. A very nice casting mould and well made. Its normally set for a 520 grn weight.
    When you find a bullet paper combination that works buy a big supply of the paper. A coupe rolls of the Seth Cole paper or a ream of the onion paper last a long time and saves finding something that works again every few years. Are you planning on a grease cookie? Wiping every shot, or blow tubing? Have you considered a patching board to roll patches? Makes it easy to roll the patches on the bullet the same each time with little attention to what your doing. Not neccesary but a simple thing that makes it a little easier and faster. I have them made for 38 cal, 40 cal, and 45 cal. Between the stop and rail I get the same fold over every time with the same open circle in the middle.
    For making grease cookies waxed paper some lube 2 spacers the thickness you want and another sheet of waxed paper, with a heavy rolling pin roll lube out to where pin is setting solid on the spacers. Another way is in a pan put a measured amount of water and heat melt lube on it to the desired thickness when liquid and let cool lift off with a spatula and set on paper towels to dry the water off.
    In 45 - 70 with paper patched in my 34 " barrels and 30" barrels I normally run a .090 grease cookie, This gives a nice lube star at the muzzle after a couple rounds and fouling stays soft and greasy. I blow tube 3-4 breaths between shots. In the 45-90 with the heavier charge and heavier bullet I use a .125 grease cookie for the same results.
    I compress the powder with the heavy wad ( Napa rubber fiber gasket material .060 thick punched at .465 dia) then add the grease cookie ( simply push the case mouth thru the lube sheet) a pin pushed thru stops air locks. a playing card wad .020 and 2 tracing paper wads pushed down with a hand seater. Then hand seat the bullet on top with a light twist. I also very lightly lube the patch with JoJoBa oil. A drop on 2 fingers and thumb with 3-4bullets then a dry patch t remove the excess. You don't want wet but just the oily sheen to the paper.
    I may try a slightly modified emmerts lube for the grease cookie this coming summer. Heres what I'm considering for a little stiffer lube for the grease cookie

    My Modified emmerts improved Un modified emmerts improved
    60% beeswax 50% beeswax
    30% unsalted Crisco 40% unsalted Crisco
    5% canola oil 5% canola oil
    5% anahydrous Lanolin 5% anahydrous lanolin

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    this will be the hardest part of getting into the Paper Patch Way - sizing the slick bullet and patching paper for the first go-round.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    You need to think about a thinner paper. The Seth cole 55w is a good place to start, or if you have a Staples office supply near by they have an 8 lb. paper roll in their drafting supply section that works well.
    I would suggest a .444 diameter mould from Buffalo Arms for the first slick, and their 458535m2 for the greaser. While you’re loading up the visa there throw in a 45 patch template and a 451-453 tapered expander plug as well.
    Last edited by Don McDowell; 12-06-2017 at 09:20 AM. Reason: ****ed auto correct
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    accurate molds .45-405/505/525 @ .443", 1:20 or 1:16 alloy, papermill fidelity 9# onion.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Do what these guys say regarding paper. I generally only use two papers, Seth Cole 55W, or Esleeck 9lb ( from Buffalo Arms ). You will likely need a 0.445" or 0.446" bullet with the Seth Cole, or a 0.443" to 0.444" bullet with the Esleeck paper.

    I've had good results with the Buffalo Arms Money bullets, and in the last while have been using their 0.443" elliptical bullet dry patched with Esleeck paper in a 0.449" Ron Smith barreled Shiloh. I've also had excellent results with a 0.445" Paul Jones Money bullet, but these are hard to get now that Mr. Jones has retired.

    Chris.

  8. #8
    Thanks for the tips. All's i'm looking to do is order like 100 bullets, some paper and try PP. Not concerned with uber accuracy, I just want to try the PP process. I don't want to invest in a mold just yet. I was thinking of buying bullets to try from BA, they also have the onion paper. The paper is listed at .002" thick. So that puts my bullet at about .442 ? BA has pre sized .442 bullets in stock . Is it ok to purchase pre sized bullets for PP or should you always custom size your own bullets ?
    Last edited by Road_Clam; 12-06-2017 at 01:30 PM.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    The right size is the right size. wether you size them or BACO sizes them .442 is .442. Actually starting out with their bullets will give you a good idea as to what you need to order when you do buy the mould

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    The .442" bullets might be a little undersized with the 0.002" paper that Buffalo Arms sells. If you shoot them with a lube cookie then they will still work quite well. Just be sure to seat them so that only about 0.1" of the bullet is in the case. A lube cookie doesn't need to be overly thick to get the job done. A 1/8" thick lube wad made of something simple like 50% beeswax and 50% olive oil will work fine. Put a 0.030" or 0.060" card wad under and one over the lube cookie.

    Chris.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Road-Clam - try this bullet
    https://www.buffaloarms.com/395-415-...ity-jim395415e

    But get yourself some different paper. Either 8# "tracing paper" from Amazon (several companies) or the slightly thicker 9# "onionskin paper" on ebay (again, several companies).

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    brent, he's got a .45-70, i think ya meant the bullet you had recommended to me (Excellent choice!) ...

    https://www.buffaloarms.com/443-530-...ase-jim443530e

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Yup. I am wasn't paying enough attention. Thanks.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    My preferred paper is 100% cotton drafting vellum (usually .0025 thick) with the strips cut across the end of the roll or from the narrow edge of a drafting sheet. This is the unstretched direction of the paper during manufacture and will allow for stretching when rolling them on and considerable shrinkage on drying, which results in a tight patch. Some folks like to have a bore diameter mold to roll a patch onto, but most of my patching is done over conventional grooved boolits and sized to the finished diameter in a push-through die or a Lyman 450. It's sometimes useful to size the boolit down somewhat prior to wrapping to reduce the stress of sizing to the finished diameter. The undersize molds are nice to have, but if my wrapped diameters are a touch off, I wind up sizing them anyway. So far, it hasn't hurt anything and I've never had loose patches as a result, though some have reported it so. Tail or no tail? I used to twist a tail to hold them on, but no more. I cut the strip wide enough to reach from half way up the ogive to .08-.100 below the heel, stretch-wrap them wet and use a smidgeon of white glue spread over the last 1/2" of paper. Lay them down and roll them hard on a soft surface a few turns and let them dry. It's important to glue paper to paper, not paper to boolit, but mistakes are easy to avoid. For some photos on this technique see post #16 at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...34#post2662334

    To produce lube sheets of a consistent thickness, I melt the lube (541, aka Emmert's) in the outside bottom of one of those pretty cookie cans with the decoration all over the outside and a plain flat bottom. The lip around the bottom of the can is up to .140 deep or so and will mold the nicest lube sheet of uniform thickness. I turn the can upside down on the stove and make sure it's level, put the heat on very low and drop a few chunks of lube on it, adding more until I get the desired depth and turn it off. Once solid, I put it in the fridge to shrink and pop loose from the can. If it's stubborn, try the freezer for 15 minutes or so. Once loose, put a paper towel on the can bottom and put the lube sheet on top of it. The lube cookie won't stick to the paper towel when you cut it and it'll come away clean. Another method I read about is to melt the lube in a sauce pan with water in it. As the lube melts, it'll float on the water and it'll be of uniform thickness by default. It also will never be scorched by this process. I use the can because the water takes a long time to cool and the lube to solidify, but hey, it seems foolproof to me if you have the patience.

    Good luck with your endeavor! Let us know how you do.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 12-08-2017 at 08:36 PM.

  15. #15
    So just updating this thread to my progress. A gracious forum member actually sent me some loaded PP ammo to try in my Pedi 1874 and see how his combo shot, long story short the load shot excellent. Best accuracy by far out of all my prior tested greaser loads. I shot about 2.5 moa at 100 yds. I know this doesn't sound super accurate, but again it's not the rifle or load it's the lack of skill from the guy behind the trigger, lol. So I went ahead and ordered the BACO .443 "Money" mould, and some Fidelity 9# onion skin paper which measures .002". Getting very anxious to try the PP method !

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    That will get you started out in the right direction. I would patch a bullet and see how it fits by pushing it through the bore with a cleaning rod. You want some drag on the bullet, you don't want it to fall through the bore.

    If it fits well, then fill a case with Swiss 1.5 and top it with a 0.060" LDPE wad. Seat them 0.010" in the case. Wipe with two, or even three wet patches between shots. Just ensure that the bore is clean. Then dry it by pushing through a dry patch. You should see great accuracy pretty much right away.

    Chris.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunlaker View Post
    That will get you started out in the right direction. I would patch a bullet and see how it fits by pushing it through the bore with a cleaning rod. You want some drag on the bullet, you don't want it to fall through the bore.

    If it fits well, then fill a case with Swiss 1.5 and top it with a 0.060" LDPE wad. Seat them 0.010" in the case. Wipe with two, or even three wet patches between shots. Just ensure that the bore is clean. Then dry it by pushing through a dry patch. You should see great accuracy pretty much right away.

    Chris.
    on the money! Name:  thumbsup.gif
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Think you mean to seat .100, not .010......
    LG
    Hav'n you along-Is like lose'n 2 good men

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy grits View Post
    Think you mean to seat .100, not .010......
    LG
    yep, exactly - i missed that, too!

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