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Thread: Moose with lightweight 45-70 boolit?

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    Coot, been using COWW+2% tin. Going to try 50-50 ww+ pure this winter. Only killed two mule deer with the Accurate 420. Both one shot and down within 10 feet.
    Runfiverun, I will probably carry the 420 when moose hunting with my GBL.Going to get the NOE 350 for deer and shooting iron with my new “Classic “. My neighbor has a range with gongs at 200,300,500,600 and 800 yards. Can use up a lot of alloy fast at that range.
    If anyone cares anymore, this new Remington built Marlin 1895 Classic is one of the nicest looking and shooting production rifles I’ve ever seen. I had my choice of five and they were all good, picked this one for the nice walnut with a bit of curl in the grain.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    I would use a 350 for deer,hog, and maybe elk and a 425+ for moose,bison, or the grizzly/brown bears./ might need it for some of the bigger, meaner hogs as well, better safe than sorry
    An armed man in a citizen.
    An unarmed man is a subject.
    A disarmed man is a slave.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Folks, as you already likely know, I GREATLY favor one load/one bullet for any of my hunting rifles.

    And find it hard to understand those that wish to switch bullets/loads depending on the game in question..

    A heavier bullet is not over kill on a smaller critter while the lighter bullet just might give over kill results on any game animal.

    The old saying comes to mind, something about being aware of the person that shoots one rifle as they likely know how to use it, or some such.

    I have taken a number of deer with my 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast bullet from my 45/70 and every one dropped where it stood with the exception of one I hit just a touch too far back and it ran maybe 75yds. dead on it's feet and just didn't yet know it.

    Why would I want or need a lighter bullet when that one bullet has so splendidly performed on those deer and the three elk I've brought home besides.

    The first deer I took with the 45/70 was with a 355gr WFN LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) bullet at a much higher velocity, what other reason is there for using light for caliber bullets, and the end result left me wondering just what in the world I'd turned loose on the deer population. Not nice at all and ever so much worse then simply using the heavier bullet which has provided awesome results.

    So, for best and most consistent results, make the attempt to "optimize" a given hunting rifle with one bullet/load that will get er done in any and all situations you may encounter.

    Back to the old, "K.I.S.S." -- keep it simple stupid way of thinking.

    One bullet/one load takes the mental gymnastics out of the shot placement situation and does away with the possibility of a mental laps.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot View Post
    Folks, as you already likely know, I GREATLY favor one load/one bullet for any of my hunting rifles.

    And find it hard to understand those that wish to switch bullets/loads depending on the game in question..

    A heavier bullet is not over kill on a smaller critter while the lighter bullet just might give over kill results on any game animal.

    The old saying comes to mind, something about being aware of the person that shoots one rifle as they likely know how to use it, or some such.

    I have taken a number of deer with my 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast bullet from my 45/70 and every one dropped where it stood with the exception of one I hit just a touch too far back and it ran maybe 75yds. dead on it's feet and just didn't yet know it.

    Why would I want or need a lighter bullet when that one bullet has so splendidly performed on those deer and the three elk I've brought home besides.

    The first deer I took with the 45/70 was with a 355gr WFN LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) bullet at a much higher velocity, what other reason is there for using light for caliber bullets, and the end result left me wondering just what in the world I'd turned loose on the deer population. Not nice at all and ever so much worse then simply using the heavier bullet which has provided awesome results.

    So, for best and most consistent results, make the attempt to "optimize" a given hunting rifle with one bullet/load that will get er done in any and all situations you may encounter.

    Back to the old, "K.I.S.S." -- keep it simple stupid way of thinking.

    One bullet/one load takes the mental gymnastics out of the shot placement situation and does away with the possibility of a mental laps.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    Till your shoulder says that NOE 350gr FN will kill them just as dead and not kill me too , just slow it down under 1400 FPS and neither the shoulder or the game will feel a thing

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    Prefer the 425gn myself. I tried bullets from the mold CDOC is talking about. The backstop shuddered with the impact. And it was accurate at 50yds! In the end, I figured I could get it done with 40gns less and a good accuracy based load development under 1700fps.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master pls1911's Avatar
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    NOE/RanchDog 350 gr gas check design at 1500 FPS should do the trick if you do your part for bullet placement.
    I can't vouch for performance on elk, but after a 48" diagonal line though hog shoulder entrance and hip exit, it still kills the hog behind.
    Full penetration from nose tip through hind end somewhere is normal. Any accurate 405 gr would be as good.
    With reasonable bullet hardness + reasonable velocity at 100 yards = surprising performance.
    45/70...what's not to like?
    Salvaging old Marlins is not a pasttime...it's a passion

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    I am kind of a one load kind of guy myself, but I have to ask, those that claim to stick with the heavies for moose, would you not hesitate to shoot one with a 30/06, 308, 358 etc??

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Starmac, I'd have no problem with that.

    However, if we are talking about a 45/70 load/bullet, while the bullets spoken of may be much heavier then with the cartridges you speak of, the velocities are MUCH!!!!!!!! lower.

    While not being an expert on moose, I have been in on two kills of mature bulls here in Idaho, and from that limited experience it doesn't seem to take much to put a moose down.

    One was taken with my 300 Win Mag and the other with a .30 Gibbs.

    Make no mistake, I'm not talking about a situation that could involve water and the critter getting there or into some other mess.

    But I've hunted with a 355gr cast in the 45/70 and while the critter was dead, the results with the slower but heavier 465gr cast were much better!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  9. #29
    Boolit Master


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    One load per gun myself. Shoot a 405 gr. flat nose boolit in my 45-70's. Have never tried the 355 gr. or 465 gr. boolits. The 405 gr. worked great, wasn't broke so why fix it. If I needed a different boolit I would also need another gun to shoot it.

  10. #30
    Boolit Man
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    Enjoying this thread. Pretty sure that ANY .45-70 load will do justice on game. This is the boolit and load that I have cooked up from straight COWW and heat treated to a BHN of about 18 BHN (have to test the sample again to see of any recent changes): 400gr Accurate Mold sized to .459 over 39.7 gr H322 for 1623 fps out of an original Winchester 1886. Hopefully, one day, I will be using it on a bison and or a moose hunt.






  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot View Post
    Starmac, I'd have no problem with that.

    However, if we are talking about a 45/70 load/bullet, while the bullets spoken of may be much heavier then with the cartridges you speak of, the velocities are MUCH!!!!!!!! lower.

    While not being an expert on moose, I have been in on two kills of mature bulls here in Idaho, and from that limited experience it doesn't seem to take much to put a moose down.

    One was taken with my 300 Win Mag and the other with a .30 Gibbs.

    Make no mistake, I'm not talking about a situation that could involve water and the critter getting there or into some other mess.

    But I've hunted with a 355gr cast in the 45/70 and while the critter was dead, the results with the slower but heavier 465gr cast were much better!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    I agree with everything you have said, my response was geared to those that say to use a 350 gr or so for deer and move step it up for moose.
    Moose are thin skinned, and ordinarily do not have the tenacity to live as an elk, or even a deer.
    Eve a slow moving cast load out of an 06 or pretty much anything else for that matter, gets the job done fine, however we do have the water problem, and letting them get 50 feet out in a swamp, can add a day to your hunt of nothing but miserable work.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    FWIW, I have shot just one moose - a fairly large one on the Yukon - using a .45-70 with a 480 gr bullet. Of 5 bullets, only one existed, and I suspect it did so because it followed hard on a trail that had already been plowed by the previous bullet, though I cannot say for sure that it was the second bullet that exited, only that two took nearly identical paths and one exited.

    Moose are big. I'd never shoot them with a 350 gr bullet when I could use a much heavier bullet. For the one size fits all, I've shot springbok to Eland with the same bullet (.45 cal, 535 gr) and strangely, neither exited, but everything in between did. I really like two holes (per bullet).

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Numbers ......
    A NOE 535 at 1100 MV retains 1000ftlb with a 9' hold over at 350 yd .
    At 1400 the Lyman 458193 at 417gr from my example is about the same .
    It takes 1450 MV with the 462-420 MP at 414 gr .
    I have a 453-350 RNFP Mountain Moulds if my numbers are correct it needs about 1650 to deliver the goods .

    None of that takes into account alloy 50/50 WW and 1-20 + copper water dropped for 16 bhn and it's expansion or penetration . The 535 isn't a good idea in the 1895 after some thought and a couple WTH are you thinking moments when I considered the jump slam into the lands measured with a tape measure I decided better save for a case where single loaded and fired was certain .

    So that takes us back to the 405s in my case 414&417 seems like they should wreck everything from entry to where ever they stop the Lyman is by far the most consistent on target but I haven't beaten the MP to death yet and the 380gr HB in the second cavity is showing real promise as a "plinking" round .

    As if it matters the 454424 at 1150 MV and 250gr goes right through 24" of running pig , 32" of standing pig and slowed to a sleepy 900 fps at the pig turns lungs to jelly or at least mush and 14" of through and through . So outside of my fear of death by angry beast I can't see why a 16-1700 fps 350 wouldn't do the job but because of my fear I'd opt for the 405s .

    Speed might kill but an F350 hit by a VW Bug will fair better than hit with a Freightliner . If I were a demo derby guy that crush pipe for driver safety would be full of concrete and any where else I could hide it .
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  14. #34
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    [ I have heard that Yukon moose are the largest of 6 or 7 sub-species of moose, how much meat can one get off of a average size bull or cow?
    An armed man in a citizen.
    An unarmed man is a subject.
    A disarmed man is a slave.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma Rebel View Post
    [ I have heard that Yukon moose are the largest of 6 or 7 sub-species of moose, how much meat can one get off of a average size bull or cow?
    Having killed one - A BUNCH! I wish i had a better answer but nicely trimmed backstraps and tenderloins will weigh 50# on a good bull. That much I do know.

    Here is a moose heart - medium size

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Rebel,

    Not sure on this, but I've always heard that there are 3 sub-species of moose in North America. Correct ?????

    As per how much meat a person can get from a moose, lots is a pretty good answer.

    My once in a life time Idaho bull moose, taken at 6:30am 9/29/1995 field dressed right at 800lbs. It was weighed at the local grain elevator. That was gutted and the lower legs removed. As I recall, that came down to about 400lbs. +/- of boned out meat in the freezer.

    This critter was from the smallest sub-species group, so the size and weight only goes up from there.

    Figure roughly that the head and horns weight 75lbs, the hide 75lbs., just a ham - not a rear quarter, just the ham was all I wanted to carry into the house for butchering. Everything on a moose, even these smallest ones is big and heavy!!!

    I continued to apply for my once in a lift time cow permit until a couple years back when carrying an elk quarter I was reminded of the size/weight of that moose and decided I was getting too old to again deal with a moose.

    Huge critters, I don't even want to begin thinking about dealing with one that died in a lake or river.

    Thankfully both mine and my wife's were hauled home field dressed and I could deal with them on the garage floor, but still your looking at much work. Great tasting meat and lots of it, but it comes with lots of effort.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    In AK, most areas require leaving meat on the bones and packing out full quarters. A Yukon Delta Moose quarter is enormous. But maybe 160# on the low end, w/o skin or lower leg bones. I wish I had a video of how I strapped into my pack, stood up and walked with one on my back. It's ridiculous. I am far prouder of having packed out my moose than having killed it. But I would love to do it again.

    I would also love to have taken the hide and had it tanned. A full moose hide would be awesome, but I can't believe it was anywhere close to 75# as it came off the animal - more like 2-3 times that I would guess. No way I could have lifted the floppy thing.

  18. #38
    Boolit Bub
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    Brent you are right on the money for weight of a moose leg. The rear legs of a fully mature bull typically run around 155 pounds give or take a few either way. A friend of mine shot one and the rear legs weighed 167 and 169 each and that was an exceptionally large moose. But it doesn't take much to kill one, a guy in our town shot one in his garden with a pellet rifle and it died within a couple minutes. Shot placement is key. (His lack of judgement landed him in front of a local magistrate)

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    I don't think there is such a thing as a light 45-70 bullet.

    Motor

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    Maybe not, but there ARE light for caliber bullets.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

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