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Thread: Moose with lightweight 45-70 boolit?

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Moose with lightweight 45-70 boolit?

    Anyone ever kill a moose with 350 grain or lighter cast 45-70 boolit? I already have a great heavy boolit mold, just wanting a lighter boolit to play with. Considering the NOE 315 grain gas check.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master knifemaker's Avatar
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    I have taken several buffalo , Bison, with the Ranchdog 350 gr. RNFP cast bullet. It is a gas check boolit that I size at .460 with White label 2500 lube. Load is 43 gr. IMR-4198 for about 1850 fps in my Marlin 1895 LTD-V. Both were one shot kills with complete pass though. I think NOE makes a copy of that boolit with standard lube groove.

  3. #3
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    Thanks, that’s the exact mold I was looking at. What was your alloy for those bullets?

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    you don't need to over think this.
    a 315 at 1200 would pretty much duplicate the 454 Casull.
    I would think you could out run that by a fair margin without even trying, but I doubt too much more would be all that necessary.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master knifemaker's Avatar
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    My alloy was straight clip on wheel weights with about 2% tin added for mold fillout. With the gas check, no problem with leading the barrel and accuracy was 1 to 1-1/4 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards. Needless to say, that LTD-V rifle is not for sale at any time.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Not a boolit, but 300 grain Barnes ORIGINAL (pure copper, pure lead), 1 moose ( under hide after 4 feet of moose), dozen or more elk, mostly pass throughs - Marlin 1895 45-70 2100+ fps.

  7. #7
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    bruce drake's Avatar
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    45-70 Express Loads.
    You can probably easily duplicate this load from Remington.
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/88...oint-box-of-20
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
    Bona Fide member of the Jeff Brown Hunt Club

  8. #8
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    Thanks guys, I am going to get the NOE 460-350 RF and give it a try.

  9. #9
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    Goshawk,

    Being typically in most situations a one load and bullet for one rifle person, meaning I seek to as closely as possible optimize a given firearm with one load/bullet for all game which might be hunted with that firearm, and since you say you already have a mold for a heavier bullet, my question is WHY.

    What do you hope to gain?

    My first hunting experience with the 45/70 was using a Wide Flat Nose cast of 355gr.

    I suspect that an excess of velocity (2300fps) is at least partly to blame, but the wound channel was excessive, huge, devastating.

    My results with a since growing pile of deer and several elk with a 465gr WFN at 1650fps have been ever so much better!

    By the way, the lighter bullet at the higher velocity (2300 - 2500fps) kicked/recoiled MUCH harder then the heavier cast bullet at the more sedate velocity.

    So, seemed to me that if the goal with the lighter bullet is more velocity, that would be a questionable goal and the flattening of trajectory is minimal at best.

    The right scope will take care of the trajectory issue.

    Then there was the council from some much more experienced shooters that cast bullets of 400gr or heavier simply shot better in the 45/70.

    Be that right or wrong, I am ever so satisfied with the heavier WFN cast bullet and go with the thought of, "if it's not broke why fix it."

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  10. #10
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    my 45-70 load is super similar to CDOC's just drop the weight of the bullet 30grs.

  11. #11
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    My go to is a 460-420 (group buy of years ago) w/ 40 grs. 3031. Very accurate. Somewhere near the top end of trap door loads. Fantastic terminal effects. It would be all I need if it wasn't for the fact I enjoy experimenting. The 500's & 535's have been removed from any interest to me because they hurt my damaged shoulder. Hoping to do more with the 350 RD's and the Gould boolit. Not so much because I need to but rather because I want to. -- Lots of ways to skin a cat.

  12. #12
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    CDOC and 725 , I am in agreement in the one gun one load for hunting. However the winters are long up here in the “ Great White” and I am a sucker for the beautiful molds being produced these days and I love to experiment. Also I just got a second 45-70 so it only seems reasonable that I get a second mold. I got my third 35 cal mould, an MP 359-220-hp-gc brass and the danged thing is so pretty I am going to hang it on the Christmas tree.

  13. #13
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is my hunting bullet at about 1600 fps

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Goshawk,

    That big meplat/Wide Flat Nose WILL get er done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I see that your talking about Night Owl Enterprises (NOE) and their molds. Is the drawing showing a NOE mold?

    Haven't bought any of those molds, but Have been buying molds from Tom at Accurate Molds.

    Quality product and fast turn around.

    My 465gr 45/70 mold was made by Bruce -BABore- here on this forum shortly before he needed to get out of the business. QUALITY.

    I have an LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) mold, maybe a couple although the 355gr did go to another home, and while they are good molds, I think the Accurate Molds are a notch up.

    Don't use them much any more as I really like the aluminum mold blocks, but have some Lyman and they cast fine if you don't mind casting with one hand with a wrench or screw driver in the other to keep them tight. RCBS I like, but for the most part I like 4 or 5 cavity molds and the RCBS are limited to 1 or 2 cavity.

    Have a new Accurate Mold that needs to see a casting session! It is for my .44 RUGER 77/44 -( 240gr Wide Flat Nose gas checked)- rifle to hopefully get me some smaller groups. Spent a bunch of time and powder/primers testing a range of powders, but about the best 100yd groups I could get was 3". Have been sizing at .431, but have a new die to try .432.

    That 3" was good enough to fill my antlerless deer tag at 95 - 100 lasered yards and then drop a nice 4X5 buck about three weeks ago at about 50 +/-yds.

    The bullet is 275 - 280gr from an Accurate mold and designed for the .444. My son is getting good accuracy in his triple 4, but I just haven't found the "sweet spot" in the .44. Sure did a number on the two deer with full penetration. Side to side on the doe and through the neck bones and then a shoulder blade on the buck before exiting with the front on shot. Velocity from the .44 for this hunting in the mid 1700s.

    So, I also have some more testing to do, but if/when I find the sweet spot with this fun little rifle, I'll lock in and the testing will be over for that one.

    Set out to do what I wanted for this season, take some deer with the .44.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    Last edited by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot; 12-09-2017 at 02:05 PM.

  15. #15
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    that's an Accurate mold drawing.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Well, it looked like it to me, but I thought Goshawk was dealing with NOE.

    CDOC

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshawk View Post
    Anyone ever kill a moose with 350 grain or lighter cast 45-70 boolit? I already have a great heavy boolit mold, just wanting a lighter boolit to play with. Considering the NOE 315 grain gas check.
    I have no doubt it can be done, but I would not do it. Having killed exactly one moose with 480 grn bullet and having only one bullet pass through (likely following the path of previous bullet), I wold not go a grain lighter. Moose are big. They don't need to walk out into the lake to die, or at least, you will find life a whole lot easier if they don't

    http://www.bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7311


    If big heavy bullets bother your shoulder then get a pad and remember that you will be shooting only a very few of them anyway.

    Just my 2 cents.

  18. #18
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    The 46-420 H is an Accurate mold. I also have the Accurate 360-245S for my 35 Rem. I have the NOE 311-180 FN for my 30-30. All great molds. Easy to cast with and make accurate bullets. I don’t really need another mold, but it’s fun to experiment and as I think I mentioned before the winters are long.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Alloy?

    Goshawk, what alloy are you using?

    Bruce - BABore - recommended for me to use a 50/50 Wheel Weight/lead alloy for the 465gr Wide Flat Nose from his mold, water quenched then size with a .460 push through type die soon after casting. I try to get that done the same day.

    Then the bullets can set aside to whenever you have time before lubing in a .461 sizer luber die.

    I have seated the gas checks at both times and one time works as well as the other.

    Have only found one of these and surprised to find that. After weight 327.9gr.

    This was on a quartering shot on a big cow elk. Bullet entered and took out the BIG front upper leg bone, which is where I suspect it lost the weight, then through a rib, lungs, paunch, guts and stopped just under the hide ahead of the off side ham.

    Bullet traveled close to 3 feet after taking out that big bone.

    Seems to me that was pretty awesome. Every other bullet has been a side to side and gone penetration.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  20. #20
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    he is considering a lighter one from NOE.
    IMO a 350 is about as light as I would go in the 45-70.
    it could cut recoil but still retain enough weight for penetration.
    if things were gonna get tough and you needed to punch through a big Moose from an angle then a heavier bullet would be a better choice.
    we aren't talking across the valley ranges here but out to 100 yds I doubt your gonna find a better choice.
    I settled in on the 435 because I like to know what I have in hand and can calculate my chances of success quicker.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check