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Thread: Somethings wrong! Am I a TRAITOR?

  1. #41
    Boolit Buddy


    Mtnfolk75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    "Traitor" may be a bit strong of a word, so long as "the tribe" already has one on the hooks. Doing the deed yourself has some distasteful elements, but the way I look at it, EVERYTHING on this earth lives at the expense of something else. Plants compete for space, light, and water. If you eat an ear of corn, how many potential hundreds of corn plants did you just kill (to say nothing of the zillions of wheat seeds in a loaf of bread)? What plant life are you stopping or animal life are you depriving by making your fruit cake? If you don't take steps to keep the critters out of your garden, you won't have veggies OR meat. Once you make the leap that the ear of corn is every bit as alive as a deer, the fact that one of the two has eyes becomes a little less relevant.

    Nothing wrong with passing up on a little buck to let it grow and breed, and there's nothing wrong with turning over the "bow" to the younger and fitter "braves", just so long as you've got your head squared to the reality that your cheeseburger in the Styrofoam box had a mother that loved it too, and you negotiated for someone else to swing the axe.
    This is kinda where I am, I last killed a Deer in 2004 but have helped a Disabled Neighbor by skinning & processing his deer the last few years. I have a 15 year old Grandson that hunted with me this year for the 1st time, he blew the stalk on a Nice little Forkie but said he still had a good time. I know that I can still close the deal if need be so I'm good with that.
    Livin' my dream in a little cabin on a mountain .....
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  2. #42
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    I never have engaged in 'Trophy Hunting'. I never 'got it'. It's legal. Many hunters obviously enjoy it, and I'm fine with that.
    I have always hunted for the meat. If it happened to be a particularly large specimen, then OK. But that was never the goal. I appreciate the connection to where my food comes from. Unless I decide to go vegan, animals are going to die to sustain me and my family. It's an undeniable fact.
    I've raised goats, chickens, rabbits, cows and hogs. To quote a movie character, 'I've killed just about everything that walks or crawls.' I'm a Gulf War veteran. I've done things I'm not happy about. But it never bothered me. At the time.

    Let me tell you about the killing that bothered me.

    I was mowing a pasture. About 40 acres, and about 1/3 of the way thru it. A sickle mower. And it happened. Hit a fawn. Still in spots. Cut 3 of it's legs off, bleeding everywhere, and wailing like only a young fawn can.

    ****.

    It was over a mile to the house to get a gun. There was a big Crescent wrench in the toolbox. I could not stand to hear the fawn holler any more. So I opted for the wrench.

    I've seen things far worse. But this was the epiphany of innocence in my mind.

    I still deer hunt.

    Maybe I like that I'm not allright.

    What do I know?

    I'm Unforgiven.
    Last edited by Hannibal; 12-03-2017 at 06:53 AM.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    I fully understand that a person can reach a point where he decides that he has hunted enough. If you spend much time where the critters live watching them you come to understand that they are much more than targets. I have watched fawns play tag with each other in the spring when they are still in spots while mom watched with a " you kids" expression. The more you learn about the critters the more you realize that they are out there making a living the best they can and have more in common with us than we might like to think. You come to understand how the native people could call the animals their brothers.

    The other side of the coin is that unless you go vegan some of your nutrition is going to come from critters that died. I don't eat meat every meal but I do eat meat. When I think of the life that chickens, confinement raised hogs, or feedlot steer had as opposed the deer I kill I much prefer to eat an animal that lived a life. I also appreciate the connection to the land that eating meat that came from it give to me. When we have a meal of hunted meat and garden raised veggis there is a great sense of satisfaction and connection that you don't get at the drive through.

    Where I come down on the whole thing is that how something that I eat dies is important to me. The critters I hunt want to live as much as I do. I am taking that from them. So I kill some of what I eat but I do my best to kill it well. Going into the animals environment, making a clean shot and killing with as little pain as possible and having reverence for the life taken. Much better than what happens at a slaughtering facility. I really believe that the HOW is important. Yes the end result is the same a dead critter, but for me, how will always matter. Reverence for life is important.
    Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.

  4. #44
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Forgive yourself Hannibal.

    You had no evil intent. You wished no harm to that little fawn. Yet once the harm was done you did not shirk your duty. You did not desire to do harm to that little fawn. Yet once harm was done you ended its misery as quickly and humanely as possible with what you had to hand.

    I see no guilt there.

    I see no reason for you to suffer. Like that little fawn you have suffered enough.

    Growing up we did not have stock so we did not put up hay. Still I have seen cats, dogs, rabbits and such go through the sickle. So I know what you had to deal with. Stuff happens. Sorry it had to happen to you.

  5. #45
    Boolit Buddy davidheart's Avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with your feelings nekshot. I've passed quite a few times when I could have had "more meat in the freezer." The question for me comes down to "how hungry is my family?" If we don't need the meat why would I kill the deer/squirrel/rabbit/hog/bear?

    Sometimes I just like to watch them too. The other night I was out in the woods, sitting at the edge of a clearing. I had only about 30 minutes of usable light when two bucks rolled onto the edge of my field. They began to snort and wheeze at each other. At first I was excited at the opportunity to take the shot, but as time went on and a shot I didn't feel would be ethically right would present itself I just sat and listened to their "conversation."

    They carried on their challenges and talk until after my usable light wore out. I just appreciated being able to eavesdrop.

    My grandfather was the best hunter Northeastern Pennsylvania ever saw. But as he grew older and his prosperity increased he didn't see the need to kill deer anymore. In his mid-late 70's instead of killing deer he took up fly fishing heavily and began to feed the deer which now graced his property. One of the most amazing memories I have of my grandfather is standing from afar watching him walk out to the edge of the woods... standing there he lifted a single donut in his hand and a tremendous deer walked out from the forest line... and ate from his hand!

    Take that in as an impression to leave on your grandchild!
    He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High Will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. -Psalm 91:1

  6. #46
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Thanks. I've yet to reconcile it. Perhaps I will one day.

    Until then, it just is.

  7. #47
    Boolit Grand Master
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    yours was an accident you didn't set out too harm a fawn that day
    bad things happen if it could have been avoided I am certain you would
    have chosen that
    I feel a loss every time I see a deer laying on the roadway accidents happen
    don't blame yourself the fawn was doing exactly what it was designed to do
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    I was an avid hunter up until I came back from my second deployment. Sitting in a tree, waiting for something to walk by to kill, was to much like sitting in an OP doing the same thing with people. I quit hunting that day.

    On occasion I'll go after coyotes and other pests, but I normally hunt with binoculars and a camera instead of a rifle.

    I never needed the meat, and I really never relished the killing of the animals. It was something I did because it's what everybody else did. Even before I stopped hunting, I would stand over my kill and think "What a crappy thing I have just done. This animal was just wandering around doing it's thing and I killed it just because I could."

    Being outdoors, reviewing my pictures, and telling the stories of how I got the pictures is much more enjoyable than talking it up with my buddies on how I killed an unsuspecting animal from a stand or while stalking

  9. #49
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    we all have lines, sometimes they are a little blurry.
    I won't hunt over a feeder, and I got a problem paying someone to shoot a wild animal just because it's on their property.
    others don't have those issues.

  10. #50
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    Any given morning year round there might be as many as a dozen does in the yard grazing with their young, once in a while we'll see a young buck as well. They're so accustomed to us being here that they don't always scatter when I bring the toddler out to see them (sometimes they do, but not always). I have no issue hunting deer, and still do on occasion, but the ones in the yard are safe from me.

    Squirrels however, have chewed through my soffit and siding and nearly caused an electrical fire in the attic above my daughters room by chewing on wiring, as a result those little rats get popped in the yard every chance I get. While I get no pleasure from killing them, they receive no mercy from me beyond that of a clean kill.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

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  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    Let a little spike walk Friday morning. Plenty of meat in freezer from the grocery store and I wasn't satisfied completely with the shot. Last year I almost got a nice 8 point but, the shot never presented itself. I don't think you or I are traitors, just more discerning. I really would like to take a nice one with my Husqvarna 456 shooting Veral's LBT 310165 LFN but, the shot must be to my liking.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Retumbo's Avatar
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    If it's brown, it's down.

    Lol

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy
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    If I don't have a clear shot it walks. I love venison in the freezer. I enjoy being out in nature, I love shooting. When on the deer stand, I have seen bobcats, squirrels, mink etc. Things I would never had seen if I had not been hunting. Like fishing, hunting doesn't mean killing everything you see.
    gramps

  14. #54
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    No more reason to think that you are letting a fraternity down by passing on a easy harvest than there is to concern yourself about how PETA feels when you do harvest. To me killing has always been an end to a means. I love to hunt and always have. Harvesting is just a part of the whole package not the sole reason for doing it. The smells, the sounds, the forced exercise and the opportunity to participate in a dicipline as old as human history itself. The only human activity that is old as hunting is prostitution and war, with hunting being the more noble of the three. Take your harvest or don't. It should matter to noone but yourself. Now if you tell me that you no longer have any desire to hike in unpopulated places and smell the crisp morning air and hear the leaves crunching beneath your feet I might think you are losing your faculties.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retumbo View Post
    If it's brown, it's down.

    Lol

    i used to be one of those guys, but anymore its a fat doe with no fawns or a buck that is giantic(rack size). i've passed on 8pts that i consider too small or does with fawns. if i do get one, then hooray for me. if i don't, then i don't.

  16. #56
    Boolit Buddy DoubleAdobe's Avatar
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    This is a good thread, I have tried in vain to explain to avid hunters for quite a few years why I no longer go deer hunting.
    I too got my share as a young man and increasingly just felt let down when the buck was there dead in front of me.
    I mostly went after our smaller Coues whitetail and they are challenging to hunt for sure.
    I enjoyed the camping out, the camaraderie and all that immensely, but no longer have any desire to kill them.
    And it is interesting to find out many other men feel very much the same way.
    "Them that don't know him won't like him and them that do sometimes won't know how to take him, he ain't wrong he's just different and his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right"
    Ed Bruce

  17. #57
    Boolit Buddy
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    At the grand (?) age of 76 I guess I'm just as antique as my chosen method of deer hunting, and I am quite sure that neither I nor running hounds has a foreseeable long term future. The anti dog forces are as negatively poised toward the method as is Pelosi on pistols!

    That said, I as nearly all of you, have learned that killing is the least of hunting. I do chuckle at friends my age that keep insisting that dog hunting is a young mans sport.....maybe, but it beats hell out of falling asleep in a stand watching the grass grow. Besides, if all I wanted was to kill a deer I'd set my lawn chair on the roof and pop the eight point that keeps raiding my garden.......it seems that most of the doe inhabiting my small chunk of Florida swamp and dry ridge even ignore my dogs and only grant me passing recognition........still, they supply a darn good gauge of just when the one's I do pursue are gonna be moving..............and frankly I get as much enjoyment hearing a puppy learning to run....especially when he finally figures out that there is no deer to be jumped on a backtrail.

    For my part I'd far, far rather my young hunting partner or his wife get a shot....funny thing is that that fella's wife clipped his shirt trail just this past sunday when he missed a snap shot at a nicely racked buck that crossed in front of him............. at warp speed and at no less that 30 yards!! The bright side...........firstly we didn't have to clean it....secondly and as importantly it is there to run again..........guess that's as close to catch and release as it gets hunting!

    Besides, SHE will not let him forget it

  18. #58
    Boolit Buddy

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    Hannibal been down that road many times, disc mowers really make a mess of fawns and nesting turkeys. Used my pocket knife to cut their throat, just part of the life cycle. Have seen hawks catch rabbits and just tear them into bite size pieces, that death scream is just part of living and dying. Buzzards pecking the eyes of new born calves just natures way. Every thing has to eat. Man is at the top of the food chain for a reason. God made it so. No longer hunt game animals because too much work involved to process the meat.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master



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    Hey, the same thing has happened to me on several occasions.
    A couple of years back I was hunting and sneaked up on two mule deer that were just playfully "sparring",,,one a 4 pt. and the other a 3....they were not more than 40 yds away on a bright sunny but cold morning. I had my .308 but decided I would just rather watch these two instead of shooting one of them. After about 20 minutes of being totally still I shifted my weight and snapped a twig....they took off like a shot ! It was a beautiful morning !
    Death to every foe and traitor and hurrah, my boys, for freedom !

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by owejia View Post
    Hannibal been down that road many times, disc mowers really make a mess of fawns and nesting turkeys. Used my pocket knife to cut their throat, just part of the life cycle. Have seen hawks catch rabbits and just tear them into bite size pieces, that death scream is just part of living and dying. Buzzards pecking the eyes of new born calves just natures way. Every thing has to eat. Man is at the top of the food chain for a reason. God made it so. No longer hunt game animals because too much work involved to process the meat.
    When I was farming I went the disc mower route and at 7th gear wide open the fawns just made a big bump as the passed thru the flail rollers(JD) and was as sickening of a feeling as I could have had. Sold the disc mower when the tractor and mower cut loose on wet grass and down hill slant in turn. Went back to 12 foot hydra swing and slowed way down but felt better! No more dead deer!
    Look twice, shoot once.

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