"Short and Stout" for the Shockwave and 500/590 crowd.

[megasupermagnum]

A good shooter is effective well past 20 yards with a handgun. Ive shot my 500 with pistol grip plenty. It shoots, but a handgun is better. A real shotgun is better yet. Enjoy your tac14, but dont make it something its not.

[mcdaniel.mac]

I just did about 45 minutes of reading on whether or not you can put a real stock on the shockwave. I read arguments about if it was a AOW's, federal title 1, "firearm", etc. It could be different based on state, and California it is likely a SBS. All I got out of it was a headache. All I know is my old persuader with 18.5" barrel and pistol grip is about the same OAL. All the shockwave (or tac 14) gets you is more muzzle blast as you give the middle finger to the BATFE.

Yeah, the pistol grip can be fun, and effective, but I can shoot a full stock at least twice as fast, with more accuracy. I'll take that any day.

Any combination of stock and barrel less than 16 inches (18" for a smooth bore) is an NFA firearm, either SBR or SBS. ATF lays all this out in the "NFA Handbook" on their website, with citations for each section of the NFA. State laws may be more relaxed, but you're still subject to the federal law.

[TAC14]

All you have to do is google the ATF's letter to Mossberg to get the facts.

[megasupermagnum]

Any combination of stock and barrel less than 16 inches (18" for a smooth bore) is an NFA firearm, either SBR or SBS. ATF lays all this out in the "NFA Handbook" on their website, with citations for each section of the NFA. State laws may be more relaxed, but you're still subject to the federal law.

Not true, the Mossberg shockwave or Remington TAC14 are NOT SBS's. This has been covered in this thread.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Not true, the Mossberg shockwave or Remington TAC14 are NOT SBS's. This has been covered in this thread.

They are not because they do not have a stock. If you out a stock on it, it becomes an SBS unless you also put on a 18" barrel, which is why I specified that a combination of a barrel under 18" and stock made an SBS.

[M-Tecs]

Neither one are shotguns. Both are listed as "other firearms" on the 4473.

https://www.ffl123.com/no-nonsense-n...h-scatterguns/

http://havokjournal.com/national-sec...defense/tac14/

[megasupermagnum]

If those articles are correct, you could put an 18"+ barrel on with a full stock legally, but it would then be illegal to put the shorter barrel back on, even with the nub of a grip. That's government logic right there. Myself, if I had a desire for a shotgun that small, I'd just register the thing as a SBS.

Anyway, this thread is about "mini" shells. Thanks for posting those links.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Neither one are shotguns. Both are listed as "other firearms" on the 4473.

https://www.ffl123.com/no-nonsense-n...h-scatterguns/

http://havokjournal.com/national-sec...defense/tac14/

Yep. It becomes a shotgun when you put a stock on it, same as my AR9 "firearm" becomes a rifle (temporarily) when I swap to the carbine upper and stock. It ceases to be a rifle when I remove the stock, put the brace back, and then (in that order) switch back to the 7" barrel.

Think about it logically, ATF doesn't mind if a more restricted/highly taxed firearm is temporarily or permanently converted to a less restricted or taxed configuration, but they don't want people going and buying rifles (lower excise tax, retail sales at 18) to pistols (higher excise tax, retail sale at age 21) to digde the tax and age restrictions. Florida (I have not checked MO, as I'm not a dealer here) required that stripped frames, receivers, and other "firearms" (not shotgun, pistol, or rifle) only be sold retail to person's over the age of 18 for the same reason.

Sorry to derail from the short shells, but I'd hate to see someone yoked up because they thought they found a loophole. Unless you have a highly paid accountant saying you're good, it's best not to assume you've found a way to avoid paying taxes.

[Blood Trail]

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