38 Spec 158gr +P Loads?

[Larry Gibson]

Please, can we understand the OP only wants 38 SPL +P level loads, not 357 magnum level loads.

If Elmer Keith and Dick Casull had listened to half the prohibition sentiments in this thread where would the state of handgunning be today? A S&W M14 is a quality 38 SPL not made to any less a standard than a M15. M15's are rated for +P ammunition. The OP is not asking to make it into a 357 magnum or use it as such.

[vzerone]

I read the OP's post a few times over. What I have gathered is he's, in his words, mostly going to shoot the 38 Special loads, and dabble occasionally with the 38 Special +P loads. I just wonder if the +P loads will entice him and he would end up shooting them more and more. There is a lot you can do with the regular 38 Special loads, the caliber isn't a pop gun after all. The Model 14 in 38 Special is a wonderful revolver. It could last you a life time of shooting. I have a both and I shoot 38 Special loads the most. I don't see the 357 loads for just target shooting or plinking, only for hunting, which BTW 38 Special loads will kill groundhogs and such just fine. I've ended up with mid-range cast loads in my 357's.

[tazman]

I use midrange loads in my 357 as well. 13.5-14.0 grains of 4227 under a 158 grain boolit shoots very nicely in my 357 guns.
For 95% of my revolver shooting, I use 38 special.

[dubber123]

Please, can we understand the OP only wants 38 SPL +P level loads, not 357 magnum level loads.

If Elmer Keith and Dick Casull had listened to half the prohibition sentiments in this thread where would the state of handgunning be today? A S&W M14 is a quality 38 SPL not made to any less a standard than a M15. M15's are rated for +P ammunition. The OP is not asking to make it into a 357 magnum or use it as such.

Thanks for this. I have done my fair share of careful experimenting, and still have all my digits, and learned a bit along the way. My old M10 somehow survived 35,000 rounds of a very healthy hand load in my teenage days and remains tight and accurate. Cleaning and oil does wonders in keeping things running smoothly.

[35remington]

Let us more accurately target the advice based on commentary from the OPs first post. There is in fact a large difference between 38+P and 357 loads in terms of power. 1100 FPS with a 158 in 38 Special is asking for too much. If you want to “push the envelope” as you stated, get a 357 if reasonable 38 Special loads do not have enough power.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

...

[Walkingwolf]

What do you consider a wide margin, double the fps, triple, a couple hundred fps. Your idea of a margin can be completely different from the OP. Contrary to tv, and movies handguns do not knock people off their feet, or send them flying through the air. Small caliber rifles do not either. Buffalo Bore ammo in +P is close to fps of other brands of factory ammo.

I don't understand why so many gun people try to push their standards on other people.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

...

[Walkingwolf]

Lyman #4 lists a 160gr boolit at 1463 fps ... not something a 38 +p rated gun should be digesting ...

That is about 300fps higher than a buffalo bore +P load, and that is not how fast factory loads clock. The OP did not even state he was looking to get 357 velocity, or anything close to 1400 fps. Dontcha think you are derailing the train just a might bit.

IIRC the OP was looking at getting 1100 fps, which is very possible from +P loads.

[derek45]

Has anyone chronographed 38 special +p 158 to 1000fps from a 4"

I don't think it can be done, without exceeding +p pressures

My +p data, posted above, shows 900fps or a bit more is more reasonable.

.

[Outpost75]

Has anyone chronographed 38 special +p 158 to 1000fps from a 4"

I don't think it can be done, without exceeding +p pressures

My +p data, posted above, shows 900fps or a bit more is more reasonable.

.

That's what I said, but some people need to urinate on the electric fence for themselves, shoot their gun loose, and pay a gunsmith to fix what they might have learned, or not, from it.

[salvadore]

The OP wanted to know if he could shoot +p 158gr .38 spec. to 1000fps in his 6" model-14. Not should he get his shooter Rockwell tested, check with French armours, pressure check 10,000 .38 rounds etc. I can appreciate the safety first crowd when not talking about shredded forcing cones. Like Larry Gibson asked, where would we be if Dick and Elmer had decided they wanted be safety engineers when they grew up? BTW OP, the answer is still yes.

[dogdoc]

The difference be 38spl and 38spl +p is only 3000 psi. I think I will go load and shoot a few hundred +p to see if I can loosen up my model 15. I doubt my model 15 will know the difference. I hate mouse fart loads!

[Walkingwolf]

From Midway website, 158 grain semi wadcutter +P Buffalo Bore

S&W mod. 60, 2 inch- 1040 fps (379 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66, 2.5 inch- 1059 fps (393 ft. lbs.)
Ruger SP101, 3 inch- 1143 fps (458 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1162 fps (474 ft. lbs.)

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...heck-box-of-20

The difference be 38spl and 38spl +p is only 3000 psi. I think I will go load and shoot a few hundred +p to see if I can loosen up my model 15. I doubt my model 15 will know the difference. I hate mouse fart loads!

And here is the great thing, this is still the USA, and you can legally do it. No matter who cries about it.

[Walkingwolf]

Keep in mind the LCR 357 only has a 1.87 inch barrel.

[Outpost75]

Bufdalo Bore does not follow SAAMI test procedures and I expect if they were tested in a barrel maintainex at industry standards, you would find either that their actual velocities were lower than advertised or the pressures were higher. In none of the YouTube videos shown is the chronograph calibrated to reference ammo, so the numbers cannot be relied upon. Trolls flame away. There is no free lunch.

[Walkingwolf]

Bufdalo Bore does not follow SAAMI test procedures and I expect if they were tested in a barrel maintainex at industry standards, you would find either that their actual velocities were lower than advertised or the pressures were higher. In none of the YouTube videos shown is the chronograph calibrated to reference ammo, so the numbers cannot be relied upon. Trolls flame away. There is no free lunch.

I believe the videos, many of them, show that velocities are matching their claims. I have heard of no guns blown up using their ammo, in FACT they test with the same guns, OVER, and OVER again. I would not use their ammo for target ammo, but the nonsense that people are going to blow up because they carry it for self defense is unfair, untrue, and snobbery.

The OP's question was answered, and proven to be yes, that is all he asked. It in the long run is HIS decision, everybody, including you, and me will have to live with it. OK by me since I do not lose sleep over internet gun issues. If he shoots 1100 fps I am fine with it, if he decides not to I am fine with it. Live, and let live!

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

..!

[35remington]

He did mention “pushing the envelope”which is inadvisable. He also wanted to chase 1100fps with handloads using a 158 which is inadvisable. There is a substantial difference in pressure between 38 Plus P and 357 ( 20,000 psi versus 35,000)and a very substantial difference in velocity.

He was rightly advised to get a 357 if he wanted to hot rod. None of the above is reason to suggest that pushing a 38 as hard as you can to meet some preconceived velocity level is a good idea. At some point reasonable ideas should predominate as a matter of common sense.

No one said the guns were going to blow up. What was said was a diet of loads hotter than were prudent were not smart when speaking of the gun’s longevity. In that vein, suggesting that he tone the loads down to a reasonable level is simple common sense.

And not a very arguable point. Its truth is pretty evident.

[Walkingwolf]

Obviously you do not recall correctly!

I posted the OP in my post #87 ... or you can go look at post #1 ...

Don't just cherry pick info ... he claimed the reason he was considering the model 14 38 special was BECAUSE he didn't see much difference from 38 to 357 ...

I'm not the one derailing the train or thread!

Read what you have just posted, HE didn't see much difference, HIS perspective NOT yours.