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Thread: 38 Spec 158gr +P Loads?

  1. #101
    Boolit Master Walkingwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    He did mention “pushing the envelope”which is inadvisable. He also wanted to chase 1100fps with handloads using a 158 which is inadvisable. There is a substantial difference in pressure between 38 Plus P and 357 ( 20,000 psi versus 35,000)and a very substantial difference in velocity.

    He was rightly advised to get a 357 if he wanted to hot rod. None of the above is reason to suggest that pushing a 38 as hard as you can to meet some preconceived velocity level is a good idea. At some point reasonable ideas should predominate as a matter of common sense.

    No one said the guns were going to blow up. What was said was a diet of loads hotter than were prudent were not smart when speaking of the gun’s longevity. In that vein, suggesting that he tone the loads down to a reasonable level is simple common sense.

    And not a very arguable point. Its truth is pretty evident.

    1100 fps is easy to get safely in a 38+P, it can be done with several powders without going over the 20,000 PSI pressure. It is his choice, he asked a question, AND it WAS answered, I doubt he is still reading this thread. Some people are just PO'd that the answer which is clearly YES does not bide with their internet command syndrome(ICS). Let me repeat it is HIS choice whichever way he decides to go. Maybe if you feel that strongly you should PM him, and DEMAND he follow your advice.

  2. #102
    Boolit Master

    Three-Fifty-Seven's Avatar
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    ... but, he did ask for our opinions ...
    Last edited by Three-Fifty-Seven; 04-28-2020 at 08:00 AM.
    John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

  3. #103
    Boolit Master Walkingwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three-Fifty-Seven View Post
    Maybe he just didn't know where to look ...

    Agreed that it his ultimately HIS choice ... but, he did ask for our opinions ...
    And those opinions have been given, and he posted a thank you. IOW he probably has already made his choice, I support him either way. I see no gain from trying to control others, in fact I think it drives people away. Most likely he made his decision before even posting, but was just looking for validation. I doubt he is even reading the thread anymore.

    These threads about ammo always turn into "do it my way, or hit the highway" are disasters waiting to happen. There are people who come to the internet for entertainment, and seeking knowledge, then there are those that are trying to control others. It is the same reaction when discussing pocket carry, serpa holsters, type of handgun, and so on. There are always a couple that come unhinged because others do not bow.

  4. #104
    Boolit Master

    Three-Fifty-Seven's Avatar
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    ...
    Last edited by Three-Fifty-Seven; 04-28-2020 at 07:59 AM.
    John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

  5. #105
    Boolit Master Walkingwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three-Fifty-Seven View Post
    So ... why do you keep posting then?







    BTW ... I never told the OP what to do ... I suggested a real cast boolits manual, and that he may be happier with a 357 ... that is all ...
    Because I can. YOU may be happier with a 357, he might be happy with the gun he wanted, or not. Why do you keep going on about it yourself?

    Here is the OP again read it carefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by huntingsgr8 View Post
    I'm planning on investing in a very reasonably priced S&W 14-3 38 Spec in the near future. I know that these guns were built for target shooting, and that they can easily utilize loads with +P level pressures. I was tempted to get a 586, but cast bullet velocities don't vary that much between the 38+P loads, and the 357 mag. While I plan to mostly shoot standard level loads (158gr-800fps) out of this gun, I do like to "push" the proverbial envelope from time to time, and I was wondering if I might be able to get a 158gr bullet to 1000fps from this gun, or possibly 1100fps? I know it's a bit much to ask of such a gun, but curiosity killed the cat. I plan to use either the Lee TL358-158-SWC, or the 358-158-RF, and cast from WW lead.
    Let me see if I can simplify this for you, he is going to buy the 14, I would put money on it. He is going to shoot it, maybe occasionally with some warm ammo. He can get a NEW current production 357 anytime after, and probably will. Not many of us here would pass on a 14-3 in good condition for a reasonable price, I would be surprised if even you would.

    There is no doubt shooting any gun puts wear on it, like any equipment has a service life. Certain things can shorten the service life on any piece of equipment, like drag racing a stock production car would on the weekends. Would I pass on vintage Falcon with a V-8, I doubt it if I could get it for a decent price, many people would race it, they do it every weekend. Many people can buy a Hellcat, but the vintage Falcon, or similar do not come around everyday.
    Last edited by Walkingwolf; 12-11-2017 at 03:27 PM.

  6. #106
    Boolit Master

    Three-Fifty-Seven's Avatar
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    fun!.
    Last edited by Three-Fifty-Seven; 04-28-2020 at 07:56 AM.
    John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

  7. #107
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    Please keep things civil here guys.

  8. #108
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    Play nicely please......

  9. #109
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Someone is getting much too upset about this. Good information has been forwarded. It is personal choice from here on out.

  10. #110
    Boolit Master
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    Unsubscribing. Good info took a walk a while back. The got cold & the got stale...


    Thanks! for the tips earlier though....
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  11. #111
    Boolit Master
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    I recently chroned a box of 158 gr LSWC +P ammo from a 4 inch S&W 38 Special. Averaged 905 fps.

    The Speer #13 manual shows a 158 gr lead Power Pistol load that goes 948 fps from their 6" M14, standard pressure. The listed +P loads goes 1037 fps.

    If you want to shoot a lot of +P loads, I would look for a 6" M19/66. With the M14, I would use my standard load, a 158 gr lead boolit and the factory listed load of WW231. Very accurate and the revolver should last for many years. About 850 fps from a 6" barrel.

    JMHO.

  12. #112
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Up until recently IDPA's minimum PF was 125. To achieve this with factory ammo folks had to buy +P ammo. The PF was recently reduced to 105 which was the mid range for most factory 38spl. I understand IDPA tested over 19 brands of common 38spl ammo and found it ranged from 95 to 117. (PF = Vel x weight of bullet). To make PF using lead 160 gr bullets I used 4.1 gr of PB. This equaled to 831 fps and a PF of 133 out of my 4.2" GP-100.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  13. #113
    Boolit Buddy

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    I use HP$* in all my pistol load that will allow it , seams to be a good all aroung powder and it cheaper , but then I use it just for plinking loads m Ive had really good luck with that powder
    I like 1911's and Wheel Guns , Wood Stocks and Blue Metal , Dislike Black on Black and Magazines on Rifles whats this country coming to.
    Amateur Radio Station -KB5SMG- since 1994 Call sign change as of 8-15-17 WB5MG *** My Station now consist of a new * Icom 7300 * along with a new * Ameritron AL-80B Amp * and various other goodies. * Alinco DX70T * HF radio in my truck I can Be emailed at rockinpmanager@gmail.com

  14. #114
    Boolit Master



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    Fun, Fun, Fun............
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  15. #115
    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
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    Just wanted to add my .02. Used a lot of unique at 5.something grains for my plus P 38 loads with a lee 158 SWC. Changed to 7.1 grains Win. 540 as I came into a few lbs. of it for cheap.

    And yes, it’s my 100 yard steel plate load as it shoots flat at 900 plus FPS out of my medium frame Colts. Life is good.

  16. #116
    Boolit Buddy
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    While this argument has lay dormant for some time, I would wonder what the true difference between 900 and 1K FPS is downrange? Likely not much. Its the same when comparing screaming .357 ammo with magtech 1250. Is the result going to be that different?

  17. #117
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    IIRC The difference in drop at 100 yards between an MV of 850fps and 1000fps is only a few inches. I did manage to get groups in the 1 foot range offhand at that distance with great regularity, though 148gr hbwc's do not remain stable past 75 yards or so. My groups also shrank considerably once I picked up a model 27 and started running full power loads through that. I should also add that my actual chronographed muzzle velocities were invariably 100-150fps slower than those in the load data published by Hodgdon.

  18. #118
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    Ask yourself if someone who advocates caution in handoading for older revolvers is doing anyone a disservice. If advice keeps you out of trouble and makes the firearm perform safely and effectively for frequent use, is that not clearly good advice?

    At least give that some thought.
    Naw far more important to pee on an electric fence before having a read on what old Ben Franklin learned about kites in an eclectic storm.

    The 38spl is what it is and is also what it isn't. Personally I enjoy loading 158gr to 200 gr bullets in my Model 10 without removing useful years from my wrists. Where is my buddy Felix, BruceB and....

    Take Care

    Bob
    Some of the newer members ought to do some searches. Try "Felix" for starters, enjoy the 5K-10K+ posters while you can
    Last edited by robertbank; 06-26-2021 at 11:10 AM.
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  19. #119
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    I am a giant fan of the 38 Special round and the revolvers built for it. I stated my load preference early on in this thread. Folks that wish to push the pressure red line are free to do so, but there is one mechanical truth none of us can escape. When a revolver recoils, the internal parts gnash and bash together. The greater the recoil, the greater the battering and gnashing. The battering and gnashing will sooner or later render the revolver unserviceable. How soon that occurs is largely up to the guy that loads and shoots the revolver. This is a key factor in how I load and shoot the 38 Special, or any revolver for that matter. Everybody gets to make that decision for himself. How I do things is not THE WAY, it is just my way.

    Addendum: Some years back, when the RCMP used 5" Smith Model 10s, they had a 158 grain lead hollow point load going 1k fps, or so it was reported. I thought that might be a good idea, so I developed a load using the Lyman 358456 GC HP (soft alloy)going an honest 1K fps. I loaded three hundred rounds, boxed them, labeled them and set them on a shelf. I fired a total of six rounds just because and the others 294 rounds are still there, should the spirit ever move me. This far the spirit have moved me to keep a good Colt Government Model by my elbow, loaded with Winchester 230 grain JHP rounds for social purposes.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 06-26-2021 at 10:49 AM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  20. #120
    Boolit Buddy Hi-Speed's Avatar
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    I have chronographed the following 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC loads in my Ruger BH 4 5/8 in:

    1. 5.6 grs Power Pistol avg. 949 fps
    2. 6.0 grs Power Pistol avg. 1,019 fps

    Loads were from Speer published data.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check