Lee 459-405-HB in Marlin 1895

[FergusonTO35]

I have a 1979 Marlin 1895 with unnamed Micro Groove rifling. It does pretty good with commercial boolits as long as they are hard enough. Ordered a Lee 459-405-HB mold as I figure the larger diameter and hollow base should be just what this rifle needs to shoot at it's best. I'm just looking for good accuracy and whacking whitetails at Trapdoor performance level. Powders I have include Unique, SR4759, H4198, IMR 4895 and 4064. Any suggested loads here? Also, and peculiarities to this mold or boolit I should look out for?

[emmett22405]

The common wisdom for best accuracy with Microgroove rifling is hard bullets, (+1 or +2 thou) oversized to bore, long bearing surface all readily obtained in your Lee bullet mold BUT not too high a velocity say 1100 to 1300--the latter would seem to mitigate against really hot hunting loads like 1500-1700 fps or better. I am not sure how much obturation you would get at the lower pressure and velocity of TD level loads with hard bullets; that HB bullet was originally designed for obturating SOFT lead bullets at black powder velocities in the TD carbine with less recoil than the std. 45-70 rifle load. You have to try and see. That said, there are beaucoup loads out there I recommend the Lyman Cast bullet Handbook for Trapdoor (level 1) loads, all your powders listed except 4064 are excellent choices

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks, I have the Lyman book. Just wondering if anybody has experience with this particular boolit and rifle?

[john.k]

I have a 1978,bought new.I checked the barrel,the bore/groove is exactly on Marlin published specs for m/groove.I have the lee hb mold,but have never found it to be as accurate as a 300gn .My sizer die is 459,and the bulk of my old molds cast 458/459,so there no point in making the sizer larger.I think the hb bullet has too much space for lube,reducing the engraving area of the bullet,and making it liable to strip.Lee bullets usually have tiny lube grooves,why this one has overlarge ones? who knows.Still,its a lot of mold for the price of a few hamburgers.

[FergusonTO35]

John, what sort of loads did you try with the 459-405-HB? I would think that if my rifle can stabilize a stumpy 300 grain bevel base commercial slug it should do at least as well with a fatter and longer hollow base boolit. I I can arrive at a load which consistently produces 3" or so at 100 yards I'll be quite happy. My shooting skills probably couldn't do much better anyway.

[Chill Wills]

My sizer die is 459,and the bulk of my old molds cast 458/459,so there no point in making the sizer larger.I think the hb bullet has too much space for lube,reducing the engraving area of the bullet,and making it liable to strip.Lee bullets usually have tiny lube grooves,why this one has overlarge ones? who knows.Still,its a lot of mold for the price of a few hamburgers.

That Lee HB bullet is LEE's copy of the 405 Gov't bullet from 1874. It is a black powder era bullet and has the correct size lube grooves. It is meant to enable handloaders to recreate the old government ammo for the Springfield rifle and carbine. I am not sure what the attraction is to the Lee HB Springfield mold, other than price but LEE makes a 405gr bullet mold for smokeless too. (smaller lube grooves)You could try it. However, do to my experience, I don't have much use for the smokeless bullet and sold the two I had. One flat point and the other hollow POINT, not hollow base.

Finding a used Lyman 457 193 or a 457 124 would be a good alternative.
However, if you own the gov't bullet, hollow base and all, at least give it a fair chance by finger or pan lubeing it and shooting it full diameter. Also try soft and hard alloy and see if that helps.

[john.k]

Chill is right,but everyone tells you to use a 460+ dia in the Marlin.And none of my old iron molds cast any bigger than 458.But the Lee HB casts 460/461 so your more than halfway there.Theres no point buying nice old molds if they are too small.I normally use a RCBS 300gn that I machined out to remove the gas check and enlarge to 460.As to loads, Ive been using mixed powder loads in a lot of big cases so that no filler is needed.Its a bit controversial,so I dont normally mention it.Lots of shooters do it,they dont talk much about it.I use soft alloy,mainly radio lead and a few W/W tossed in.Incidentally my gun is 454/4585 spec.

[FergusonTO35]

My rifle shoots commercial boolits just fine so I would think it would shoot the fatter HB boolit at least as well. I have the Lee 457-340-FP and my rifle doesn't shoot it as well as the commercial slugs. I'm using the same alloy that shoots great in my Marlin .30-30's. Personally, I think the lube grooves on the Lee 457-340 and 457-405 are too small, and the larger blackpowder grooves of the HB boolit are an improvement. The boolits I shoot in my .357 and .30-30 Marlins are jam packed with lube and shoot great.

[lotech]

I had an 1895 Marlin (Micro-Groove) for many years and also had the Lee mould you mention. It may have been my first .45-70 mould, but I have nothing in my notes about it; results must have been unimpressive. I suspect it may not have cast large enough, but I'm not sure on that. If the Lee mould won't cast at least a .459" bullet, I would try something else. With the Marlin, I quickly discovered that for best results it was necessary to use the largest diameter bullet that would not cause difficult chambering, regardless of alloy. Some say use a hard alloy in these rifles. I found wheelweight alloy was fine, but I didn't shoot any 400 gr. + loads faster than about 1,300 fps from the Marlin.

I've used many powders with the Lyman #457193 and the Lee should work well with the same; best has been 5744, closely followed by Reloder 7 and IMR4198. Some like IMR3031; my experience with it was limited as I did not get the accuracy I expected. In fairness I'll add that more work may have produced better results. I've had very good results with the Lyman #457193 in several .45-70 rifles.

Someone mentioned the Lee 340 grain .45-70 mould. Another that didn't so well for me, but I didn't do extensive work with it. For a light .45-70 bullet, the Lyman #457122 HP is an excellent one.

[Maven]

Ferguson...., I have both the Lee 405-HB and a Marlin #336 .45-70 (Microgroove) and find that CB be fairly accurate (<3 m.o.a.; many touching ea. other) if I do my part. By that I mean sizing that CB to .459" and seating it to 2.55" OAL. Alloy is nominally WW + 1% Sn and the CB's are air cooled only. In spite of that I get no leading at all. As for loads, the Lyman handbooks are an excellent starting point + I've had excellent results with 12gr. - 13gr. Alliant Unique with the Lee 405-HB. In short, while the Lee 405-HB is not the most accurate CB in my particular Marlin, it certainly has potential. The most accurate CB? A LBT 465gr. FPPB design, which really gets your attention when velocity climbs beyond 1,300 f.p.s.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. I'm going to stick to Trapdoor level loads, they will cleanly kill anything in the Bluegrass no problem.

[Pb4me]

Hello Ferguson:
Reference the Lee hollow base with SR4759........
I enjoyed casting and shooting that bullet with others in that rifle. The Lyman manual says that 26 grains is minimum so I started there with both cast and quenched and paper patched with regular copier paper. I went to 27.5 grains of SR4759 and stayed there. Accuracy is wonderful but I cheat with a Lyman tang sight. I use homemade lube and CCI primers back then but now Winchester primers. Hopefully they will have the same accuracy. Good luck and I know you will enjoy it.

[FergusonTO35]

Great, sounds like just what I need. The mold showed up Saturday, hopefully I can pour some with it soon.