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Thread: 7.5x54 Fench Mas, dies?

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    7.5x54 Fench Mas, dies?

    I have a French 1936 MAS on hold at a local gun store, and started looking up reloading necessities. There are several online references that the Lee FL die sizes to much. Any first hand experience? RCBS is a good bit higher priced, and I get the rifle FCD with the Lee set. I plan on neck sizing most of the time. Sounds like the bores are also a shade smaller than the usual .308 size as well.
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    I haven't loaded a round of that in ten years but messed around with several of the 49/56s and Lee dies and never noticed a problem. The Lee Factory Crimp for the 7.62x54R crimps them perfectly but you won't need that in a bolt action. Barrels were typically .308 groove diameter, so they weren't tight they just actually measured what they were supposed to. My dies and experience aren't recent, but no problems with circa 2005 Lee dies.
    Rule 303

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piedmont View Post
    I haven't loaded a round of that in ten years but messed around with several of the 49/56s and Lee dies and never noticed a problem. The Lee Factory Crimp for the 7.62x54R crimps them perfectly but you won't need that in a bolt action. Barrels were typically .308 groove diameter, so they weren't tight they just actually measured what they were supposed to. My dies and experience aren't recent, but no problems with circa 2005 Lee dies.
    Thanks for the info. I like to use the Lee rifle FCDs to remove the flare after seating a cast bullet, not really crimp it.
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    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Look to PriviPartizan for ammo.
    Graf&Sons should have it at a good price.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    I use Lee dies for my MAS 36 with no issues.
    ukrifleman.

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    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Please give us a report. I've always wondered how they perform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    Please give us a report. I've always wondered how they perform.
    Will do. Grafs ran out of loaded ammunition; so I went the empty cases route and Lee 3 die set. I also found references to using a shortened M1 carbine spring to reduce the trigger pull down to around 5 pounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by texassako View Post
    Will do. Grafs ran out of loaded ammunition; so I went the empty cases route and Lee 3 die set. I also found references to using a shortened M1 carbine spring to reduce the trigger pull down to around 5 pounds.
    I have a 1936. Have done some reloading for it with Lee dies. Accuracy with cast bullets ( I used 120 gr RCBS RN sized 309 and 2400 powder) was very good.

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    Call Dave at CH4D.
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    Are the barrels of the 7.5x54 really truly .308 or are they tighter? My bore wear gauge won't even go in and measure 300 on my MAS 49/56 or my MAS 36...
    The good thing about science is that it's true no matter if you believe it or not. (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

    I was scolding my 5-year old for her and her friends making a giant mess in her room. She said they all did it. So I asked her: If all her friends jumped off a cliff, would she do it too? She said, "Oh no daddy! I would go to the bottom and try to catch them! They're my friends." Man, either I have a great kid or she has a stupid father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbitNutz View Post
    Are the barrels of the 7.5x54 really truly .308 or are they tighter? My bore wear gauge won't even go in and measure 300 on my MAS 49/56 or my MAS 36...
    I slugged several 49/56s and with the exception of one well rusted and worn one that had a .311 groove diameter, they were really .308. Remember that bore and groove are two different things. Also remember most of these milsurps had cut rifling, which is deeper. I just pulled out my notes to verify. A bore of .297-.298 was standard and groove of .308-.3085. No M36s checked.
    Rule 303

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    Ok, that makes sense. I checked all the sources I could find and found they all listed .308-9 for the 7.5x54. I was really starting to wonder when everything I owned in 30 caliber from 30 carbine to 300 RUM would read 300 to 302 on my wear gauge.
    The good thing about science is that it's true no matter if you believe it or not. (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

    I was scolding my 5-year old for her and her friends making a giant mess in her room. She said they all did it. So I asked her: If all her friends jumped off a cliff, would she do it too? She said, "Oh no daddy! I would go to the bottom and try to catch them! They're my friends." Man, either I have a great kid or she has a stupid father.

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    Boolit Master mtnman31's Avatar
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    My Lee dies work fine for me. My only gripe is that the seating stem leaves a ring around the bullet (more than normal). Not an issue and now that I'm thinking about it, I'll get off my duff and polish the stem.

    I do need to try the carbine spring recommendation to lighten trigger pull. The pull on my 36 is atrocious, comparable to the trigger pull on my Nagant revolver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnman31 View Post
    The pull on my 36 is atrocious, comparable to the trigger pull on my Nagant revolver.
    WOW! I have never seen anything comparable to the D/A pull on my Nagant revolver. It's akin to a permanent safety. My MAS 36 is fairly reasonable, not Mauser or '03 Springfield like but not at all horible. The MAS 36 I have is a very early pre-war model, maybe there's a difference.
    The good thing about science is that it's true no matter if you believe it or not. (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

    I was scolding my 5-year old for her and her friends making a giant mess in her room. She said they all did it. So I asked her: If all her friends jumped off a cliff, would she do it too? She said, "Oh no daddy! I would go to the bottom and try to catch them! They're my friends." Man, either I have a great kid or she has a stupid father.

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    Boolit Master mtnman31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbitNutz View Post
    WOW! I have never seen anything comparable to the D/A pull on my Nagant revolver. It's akin to a permanent safety. My MAS 36 is fairly reasonable, not Mauser or '03 Springfield like but not at all horible. The MAS 36 I have is a very early pre-war model, maybe there's a difference.
    That's a bit of an exaggeration, but it is one heavy pull and not conducive to accuracy, at all. It is definitely the worst rifle trigger I have.
    Last edited by mtnman31; 12-04-2017 at 09:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnman31 View Post
    That's a bit of an exaggeration, but it is one heavy pull and not conducive to accuracy, at all. It is definitely the worst rifle trigger I have.
    Maybe that's why the French have such a bad reputation...
    The good thing about science is that it's true no matter if you believe it or not. (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

    I was scolding my 5-year old for her and her friends making a giant mess in her room. She said they all did it. So I asked her: If all her friends jumped off a cliff, would she do it too? She said, "Oh no daddy! I would go to the bottom and try to catch them! They're my friends." Man, either I have a great kid or she has a stupid father.

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    I picked it up yesterday. Trigger doesn't seem that bad compared to some of my other milsurps. Maybe they parkerized all of the trigger group as well since it is everywhere else. There are even ones out there with parkerized bores. Mine barely has any of the parkerizing worn off the bolt.
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    Yes the Lee dies size the 7.5 too much. They squeeze the diameter of the case down about .006 smaller than necessary on the body diameter.
    The result is the cases stretch way too fast. You can check with a guy with thr handle of motor both here and at the Gunboards Reloading forum.
    EDG

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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    Yes the Lee dies size the 7.5 too much. They squeeze the diameter of the case down about .006 smaller than necessary on the body diameter.
    The result is the cases stretch way too fast. You can check with a guy with thr handle of motor both here and at the Gunboards Reloading forum.
    I have to agree now. Ran a brand new ppu case in my new Lee die. The Lee die sized it down a further 5 thousandths from shoulder to base, and left a disturbing looking ridge of brass at the base. It did not move the shoulder back. I plan on neck sizing; so it will only be an occasional issue for me. The ppu brass chamber fine unsized and match the measurement in the books.
    Back in the land of boolits.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by texassako View Post
    I have to agree now. Ran a brand new ppu case in my new Lee die. The Lee die sized it down a further 5 thousandths from shoulder to base, and left a disturbing looking ridge of brass at the base. It did not move the shoulder back. I plan on neck sizing; so it will only be an occasional issue for me. The ppu brass chamber fine unsized and match the measurement in the books.
    I think you can neck size with a .308 FL die set shallow.

    The poster "motor" has a scan of the Lee internal engineering sketch. The Lee drawing has significant errors on it compared to the CIP standards drawing. You can find his posts at the reloading forum at Gunboards.com. You can find the CIP DRAWINGS at the CIP homologation topic on the web.
    Last edited by EDG; 12-08-2017 at 09:34 PM.
    EDG

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check