Am I over thinking my smelting setup?

[guywitha3006]

I am working on building a smelting setup powered by a 200,000 BTU Bayou burner (as I already have) the original stand is scrap metal so that began the over thinking/Tim Allening a design for a new pot/burner holder.

I plan to use ceramic insulation to try and maximize heat and minimize propane usage. But the part that has me wondering if I am over thinking this is how much heat gets transferred to the stand if the burner is resting right on it? Running the burner wide open (which I probably/hopefully won't have to do) allowed the cast iron burner to get red hot and that was with no insulation. I don't want the stand to get hot enough to damage concrete. for the moment is will be holding Harbor Freight Dutch ovens but down the road I would like the option to expand that...may a bottom pour pot.

Thanks for the help. Hopefully one of these days I can actually smelt the various piles of lead in my garage.

[William Yanda]

Too hot to grab with a bare hand, but probably not hot enough to weaken or harm concrete. If you are concerned, get a piece of the backer board used for tile to put under it

[quail4jake]

Not overthinking! Work smart and anticipate design problems before building, research and don't reinvent the wheel. An acquaintance set up a coal fired smelter and forge, we talked things over and I thought it flimsy and he was underestimating the weight of the raw scrap, he thought I was overthinking. It collapsed and dumped >100 lb of molten alloy on the wooden floor of his shop, after the Fire Department left he started rethinking it....so, yeah, you're taking the right approach. Check out threads on using a cut off propane tank, looks promising. Best of luck!

[MaryB]

Secondary advantage is easier to clean up spills!

Too hot to grab with a bare hand, but probably not hot enough to weaken or harm concrete. If you are concerned, get a piece of the backer board used for tile to put

under it

[guywitha3006]

Thanks for the idea for the backer board. I was trying to think of a way to insulate the burner from the structure but that may be easier. As far as beefyness goes I am thinking 1/4" angle. My BIL is a welder and is happy to trade his time welding for my time reloading. Eventually I will make a nice stainless steel pot but I for see the Dutch ovens sticking around for a while. On a side note how much alloy fits in the propane tank pots?

[bstone5]

I use a large cast iron skillet and a large propane hand helt torch, don't do large volumes at a time.

[Chill Wills]

I don't want the stand to get hot enough to damage concrete. for the moment is will be holding Harbor Freight Dutch ovens but down the road I would like the option to expand that...may a bottom pour pot.

Thanks for the help. Hopefully one of these days I can actually smelt the various piles of lead in my garage.

The cast iron dutch is mostly an Okay pot BUT, over many years of use (decades), I have had one bottom crack slowly and start a slow leak, so warning was enough to quit in time. The second cast iron dutch failure was the bottom drooped down and got a spiderweb looking set of cracks.
Granted, my plumbers floor furnace has a single large gas jet that must concentrate the heat.

Cast iron is easy to come by, however, I would recommend to anyone that uses it for melting lead to upgrade to steel as soon as they can easily do it.

[country gent]

Cut right a propane tank is capable of 300-350 lbs of lead. When making your stand and pot also make a bigger 2 hand ladle for pouring ingots. I made a ladle pot for casting that holds 100 lbs of lead. My old smelting pot holds 300 lbs or a little better. A ladle made from 3/4" Sch 80 pipe 4' long and a 4" Weldon pipe cap makes a nice ladle that fills most ingot molds in one pour. Handle is long enough for 2 hands making use easier and steadier.
Mine has never harmed the concrete floor in the garage with its 500,000 btu weed burner. I have set it up on a layer of footer blocks to protect the floor Along with a 3 sided wind shield from footer blocks when needed. Mine will melt the 120 lbs of lead in 15-20 mins.
Decide how big of batches you want to do in lbs. I believe a quart of lead is 35 lbs if memory serves. Divide the lbs of lead you want to do by 35 and number of quarts is the volumne. fid a pail close to the size of dia of the propane tank and fill with number of quarts of water ( weight wont be the same but volumne will be) and see what you can get. Remember to add 3" or so for stiring fluxing the pot. I took the small dia base of my tank and welded a ring cut from the tank for a full dia seat ring.

[triggerhappy243]

This is what i use. The cast iron pot holds approx 65 pounds. To the brim. I keep it at 60 pounds. Pot could be had at walmart ($18) or harbor frt.

[lightman]

Over thinking a design for something that is going to hold a few hundred pounds of 700º lead is never a bad idea. My burner and stand are home made and are one piece. The top of the stand does get hot but it does not transfer the heat enough to hurt the floor. Like someone else posted, a piece of concrete backer board will protect your floor and make clean up easier. I use a 4 X 8 ft sheet of old plywood and have never had a problem with it getting too hot.

[6bg6ga]

Well, at least no one mentioned using aluminum again.

[mozeppa]

Well, at least no one mentioned using aluminum again.

i use an aluminum spoon to stir the alloy with!

[skeettx]

Mine is very close to Chill Wills and triggerhappy243.
I use the bottom half of a steel propane cylinder to hold the lead.
I have added an old wash tube and an old kettle to keep heat in

[guywitha3006]

Ok so after lots of thinking and fancy mental designs with angle iron and angle cuts, I think I have a K.I.S.S. solution. I was walking through the shop at work today and saw two things...plate steel and Sched 40 steel Pipe.

I think I am going to see if my BIL can take a 12" long piece of 12" pipe and add a base and top plate to it. I am now debating if I should do a 16"x16" base or 24x24" base and what thickness plate to use(.25"-.5"). I think I am set on the top plate being about 13"x13" so there is not much hanging past the pipe. and the will all be centered on the inside 10"

I may be able to get some 16" pipe but I am not sure if I need this (then I would just do a 16"x16" top and base.

Any ideas about which would be most stable or would both be more than stable enough? I am not an engineer but l think both should support the weight with no problem.

[country gent]

A solid plate between the pot and burner would slow melting down a lot. Even a piece of boiler plate for the top should have a angle iron frame welded around it to slow warppage and lessen strain, a simple flat plate isn't near as strong. Look for some heavy grating to use or angle iron lengths every 2 1/2" - 4" for the pot to sit on weld these in v point down so flame is directed thru and not captured. A simple angle iron frame with 3 legs works well and always sits stable. 4 legs is okay but may rock on uneven surfaces. Another plus on 4 legs are leveling screws to adjust to an uneven floor. A ring at the top and another at the bottom makes a solid stable stand

[guywitha3006]

Hey Country Gent,

The way I am picturing it the burner will actually sit on top of the piece of plate and the the pot will rest on some 8? grade 8 1/2" bolts welded to the top plate that go through the burner (burner is shaped kind of like a wheel with spokes). I am not to worried about needing the three legs as I will be casting on my concrete driveway which is pretty level. Can you explain why I should add angle to the top plate, I plan to have it fully welded to the pipe and the weight will fairly spread out. This is a learning experience for me so I am trying to understand as much as I can.

Thanks everyone for the help so far!

[skeettx]

YES, you are WAY over thinking this
Heat goes up, the concrete will be fine
Get the propane burner, the pot support, the pot, and air shielding if wanted.
See Chill Wills setup.
And MELT some alloy
Mike

[lightman]

I like the idea of the 12 inch pipe and the 1/4 inch plate. I like the 16 inch pipe even better. A pot that size is going to hold over 400# of lead so make your stand strong enough. Having a little of the pot hanging over the edge of the stand won't hurt anything.

[D Crockett]

this is Christmas time the time for giving. so Guywirha3006 here is what I am going to do. I will make you a steel pot out of a propane tank just like the one in the picture that Chill Wills shows. only the one I will make you will have a spout on it. the only thing I ask is you pay the shipping on it my wife and son has just about broke me with Christmas shopping. if you would like to see a stand to get a idea as to what would work.go to the vendors section and look at that stand I made for the Captain I think you will like that Idea pm me and let me know if you want to take me up on this offer and one other thing I hate the thought of using cast iron to melt lead in I had one break on me once (what a mess) is why D Crockett

[guywitha3006]

D Crockett Thank you for the off PM incoming, Merry Christmas!