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Thread: Unloaded Franford Arsenal 30-06 Cases

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Unloaded Franford Arsenal 30-06 Cases

    Hello!

    saw these on GunBroker, and figured, why not. Tried to find any information more than what the guy that was selling had listed but was unsuccessful. All I know is the date on the box and that according to the seller they are 30-06. Can't wait to get them and see what they see all about. Anyone know what powder charge might be in these?

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Could be wrong, but the only 30-06 cases I've ever seen with a wad were blanks. So having said that yours looks to be someone's handloads. Do not use the powder for anything. Blanks are loaded with a extremely fast burning powder that is to make a loud noise. As far as what looks like the cotton string never seen anything like that before. Check the headstamp anything after 1954 would be non corrosive for sure. I know some lots earlier would have been non corrosive but do not have the info at hand. Frank

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Well, they aren't blanks, they are ready to load cases that just need the projectile. Supposedly during various wartimes the US made unmarked munitions for sketchy operations they didn't want any tie to, and I think that's what these are. They have no mark on the headstamp at all.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjthomas99 View Post
    Well, they aren't blanks, they are ready to load cases that just need the projectile. Supposedly during various wartimes the US made unmarked munitions for sketchy operations they didn't want any tie to, and I think that's what these are. They have no mark on the headstamp at all.
    If it has a fiber wad and a cotton fill and powder charge.. it sure ain't a ready to load case.

    it was either a trainer, grenade or blank.. but many blanks were crimped.

    it takes more work to load a cotton fill and a plug than to load a projectile.. so they were n't preloading them and capping them for use later on. That's a pretty small charge compared to waht.. say.. what a pile of 4064 might look like for a 30-06.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    LC 52 is non corrosive
    Facta non verba

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    Here is a couple more pictures. Once I receive the box I will have more info. The seller said they came from Ft. Dedrick and he has a few hundred more rounds in boxes. Worst case, I bought some primed brass from 1961. I was hoping to not be met with such negativity about this, and maybe some info, but oh well.

    I realize they could be loaded ammo that got the Bullets pulled and put in other boxes, but the unmarked brass is the weird part. I will take measurements once I receive the items.

    Thanks

    Brian

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    I don’t think it’s so much negativity as it is that we don’t think they are what you think they are. No offense intended.

  8. #8
    Banned - Charles1990/Eldon/Happy Warrior/Red Jackson/Henry VIII/Mr Humble
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    If they are FA cases they will have an FA headstamp and a 2 digit year date as in FA35.

    No headstamp, unsealed box ----- who knows.

    I have a bunch of 06' "basic" (straight) cases with no headstamp that came with a 7mm06 on an 03' that was owned by a Lake City worker. I imagine they were "borrowed" off the production line.

    OP needs to go on a cartridge collectors website to get accurate info.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Might be rifle grenade rounds for the Vivien Bessières model of rifle grenade launcher or something along those lines. We used the French grenade launcher adapted to our rifles in WWI primarily but also saw limited service in WWII. The real deal used a live cartridge to trip the grenade fuse as it went through the center of it and the gas behind it propelled the grenade out of the cup. For practice with dummy grenades I t was a hazard to use live ammo so a special blank was developed using a wood bullet. Food for thought!
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  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

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    We can't really tell a lot from the pictures. The case does look like a 30-06 case. The pile of powder looks to be too small for a loaded 30-06 cartridge. The wad and packing makes one think blank, but they are unlike any of the other blanks that I have seen. I have a few odd cases in my collection that don't have head stamps, so this was not unheard of. Please post more pictures when these arrive. Whatever they are, they are interesting.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    could also be parade 'report' or salute loads. I'm just no way believing loaded ready to go, pulled bullets, stuck in cotton and fiber plug, and a crazy small, probably very fast, powder charge. That's just wishfull thinking to me. Not being negative.. being practical.

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    I've been trying to find information about the so called "Clandestine" munitions developed for various entities. I've been trying to find information about that, but have not had any luck. Is there anyone on here that is the "resident expert" of USGI ammo?? I have this same search for info up on the IAA site as well.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    I just did a google search for no headstamp ammunition and got half a dozen hits about 9mm, 308 & 30-06 with no headstamps, plenty of discussions of black ops, and about chineses spoofed LC m1 stamps, etc.

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    I did the same. There has to be someone out there that actually has some documentation. I thoroughly enjoy the forums for base information to start with but I use it as a starting point. Just like with reloading info, good for ideas but ALWAYS double check with manuals before blindly trusting anyone.

    So I'm looking for that. Anything that resembles documentation.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    Only one way to know for sure that you are right.
    Crimp a 147 gr slug in a case and get back with a long string, preferably behind something and let her fly.
    If you got to know it is the only way to know for sure.

    If it were me, I would dump the powder down an ant hill and give the ants a little fireworks show.
    Then I would use the cases to load something I know is safe.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    That smile pile of powder looks suspiciously small to me

    I bet it's on the fast side too.

    No way you'd ever get me to re use that charge in anything except exactly what it came out of, some kind of report /trainer/grenade/blank round...

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    That smile pile of powder looks suspiciously small to me

    I bet it's on the fast side too.

    No way you'd ever get me to re use that charge in anything except exactly what it came out of, some kind of report /trainer/grenade/blank round...
    I totally agree. I am hoping to see pictures when his ammo arrives.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Looking a little closer at the photos, something appears amiss. I thought I was looking at a cardboard wad, but when you blow the photo up is appears to be a cork plug or something forced into the end of the shell.

    It's also clearly not the original box, and probably nothing to do with Frankford Arsenal at all. If you blow up the second photo of the box you can see under the blacked out part next to the tape the letters "ATO". That box originally held 7.62 NATO rounds. The photo of the brass sure looks to be 30-06. When you get them check to see if they are berdan primed.

    If I had to guess, I would say perhaps Yugoslavian? To me the brass base has a Yugoslavian look to it (speculation) and I have seen Yugoslavian brass without a headstamp. Just a guess.

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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  20. #20
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check