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Thread: Getting serious with 8x56r

  1. #21
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    I haven't shot the long rifle, but I can attest that Nazi 1938 ammo is brutal from the carbines! I chronographed and it's plenty hot for that old of a rifle and cartridge. The 8x56R is a very underated round. If you think about it and you have one that has a fat groove, you are very close to it being a 338 then a 323 groove for a 8x57. That's an impressive round.

    I use to shoot wheelweight alloy and 50-50 alloy from mine and I shot the fattest bullets that would chamber. It shot cast exceptionally well. I did have to put a higher front sight on my carbine as it shot extremely high at 100 yards.

    So if you fellows thing the long rifles can be unpleasant with that original ammo try shooting the carbine!!

  2. #22
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    swheeler's Avatar
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    I didn't notice anything "brutal" about the Nazi marked surplus ammo, 5 rounds chronoed an average of 2285 fps.


    Recoil
    Input Data
    Charge Weight: 41.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 2285.0 ft/s
    Firearm Weight: 7.0 lb Bullet Weight: 206.0 gr
    Output Data
    Recoil Velocity: 13.5 ft/s Recoil Energy: 19.9 ft•lbs
    Recoil Impulse: 2.9 lb•s
    06-Dec-17 16:07, JBM/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi
    Last edited by swheeler; 12-06-2017 at 07:10 PM.
    Hell, I was there!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by vzerone View Post
    So if you fellows thing the long rifles can be unpleasant with that original ammo try shooting the carbine!!
    -------------
    I can only imagine what the carbines are like with military ammo. My experience shooting same in my long rifle was enough for me. Changing to cast and appropriate charge of powder made firing it a lot more pleasant.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhole View Post
    -------------
    I can only imagine what the carbines are like with military ammo. My experience shooting same in my long rifle was enough for me. Changing to cast and appropriate charge of powder made firing it a lot more pleasant.
    I would have loved to tried that military in the full length rifle. I will take your word for it. You know both the cast and jacketed military are over 200 grains and when you get a bullet of that weight moving you have to pay some in recoil. Steel buttplates down help any either!

  5. #25
    Boolit Man
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    Ya all have to quit talking about these things. I may need to scrub the cosmoline out of the two I got and shoot them. I have a bunch of Nazi marked stuff but won't rather shoot some of my loads. Just not enough to time in the day. Should have bought a few more at $59 though.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WJP View Post
    Ya all have to quit talking about these things. I may need to scrub the cosmoline out of the two I got and shoot them. I have a bunch of Nazi marked stuff but won't rather shoot some of my loads. Just not enough to time in the day. Should have bought a few more at $59 though.
    By all means, drag them out, clean them, and have fun. Remember that Nazi stuff has corrosive primers.

  7. #27
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    That's the reason I've been lazy. I have too many to clean now that haven't been shot with corrosive ammo. That and I'd rather load some of my own. It'll get done one day, might be by my son though.

  8. #28
    I tried the Lee 338 mold a few years back with Trail Boss. Unsized, no gas check. The throat and neck in the carbine I was using is so big that the unsized .340 diameter bullet slides right in a fired case and the nose never touches the rifling.

  9. #29
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    I found a little old single cavity Lee 338 on EBay for 12 bucks. So I spent today having some fun in the 80 degree sun.

    These drop at .340 and chamber just fine. Crazy for a .332 groove rifle. I think these have more of a forcing cone than a **** lead.....

    I believe I'll size to 338 as that is a commonly available sizer, and NOE stocks a .336 expander for my expanding die.



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  10. #30
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    I bought a 338 sizer. But NOE only stocks a 338 x 334 expander plug. Thats .004 smaller than my bullets. Is that too much press fit in the cases? I usually shoot for .002 press fit to keep things concentric......

    Might be okay, since the 8x56r has a short neck and could use the extra tension.....these drop at 218 grains.

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  11. #31
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    ...............You could get Lathesmith to make a caseneck expander to your desired specs. If you want to seat them out to engrave, you might not have much of the boolit in the neck anyway Sure wouldn't hurt to do a chamber cast to show you exactly what you have to deal with. Early on, checking with the issue 1938 ammo, on a couple rifles with the jacketed slugs if you tried to seat them out to engrave they'd be too long to enter the magazine.

    ...............Buckshot
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  12. #32
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    Al is going to make a quick run for me of a .339 x 335 expander. He agreed 4 thousandths is probably a bit much.

    I get about 3/16 of bullet engraving and that is with them seated to the base of the neck.

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  13. #33
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    5 test cartridges with 45g RL22 with the Lee 338 sized 338. No gas checks yet.

    Smooth extraction and feeding, clean burning and good power. But only 5 rounds gave me some lead frosting down the bore, with a light lead ring at the muzzle.

    I'm assuming 338 down a 332 tube will cause leading. Going to see if the gas checks will help reduce once I order some. Also tumbling the sized and lubed bullets in some alox to boot.



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  14. #34
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    I have four of the 8x56R steyrs one rifle and three carbines. I've got the S&K scout mount scope on the rifle, a red dot on one carbine and the other two are orginal carbines. I'm using the Lee .338 mold with gas checks resized to .334 and then powder coated. I'm using red dot from 9 to 12 grains and trail boss 9 to 12 gr's. one carbine has a .330 barrel and it didn't like my .334-5 bullets(with iron sights) so it might be me. I don't shoot any kind of factory ammo in them. me and my shoulder are getting too old for that stuff. i'm still trying to work out if the gas checks are really neccessory or not. I'll be trying the Lee .329 mold with out gas checks on the carbine with the .330 barrel. but right now i'm getting low on cases, I had to anneal this last batch, I've lost 10 cases(split necks) in the last two days, (PPU brass, or nny)
    any know where i can get cheaper brass(I paid for one fired 8x56R(I think) .65 cents each.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master Gunfreak25's Avatar
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    Finally a range test!

    -Lee .329 drops at 330. I used my 338 Lube Sizer die and top punch to "squish" or bump up the diameter. Then I ran through a Lee .329 push through I honed to .331.

    -21g Swedish surplus flake very similar to 2400 in burn rate. Good power, yet mild.

    -medium crimp with seater die at top of 2nd lube groove.

    I'm very happy with the results. There is some very minor leading but it tapers off after a point. I think a tumble in alox over the NRA lube will fix it. The bumped up bullets also shoot more consistently than the non bumped up ones. Crazy but it works.

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  16. #36
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    Heres a more detailed photo. The larger groups were a comparison of bullets bumped up in the Lube a matic vs not bumped up.

    Next step, uniform flash holes, add extra lube via alox tumbling. If I could find a way to more uniformly bump these bullets up too that will help.

    The shots hit a little left, I'm calling that barrel harmonics with lower velocity loads. It likely shoots straight with FMJ hi velocity rounds.

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  17. #37
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    ..............Looks like you have it shooting Knowing how those iron sights are, that's some smart shooting and adding in the 'Match Grade Trigger' it's downright amazing at 100 yards. Nice landscape BTW. My Dad lives in Pima, AZ down the road from Thatcher/Safford. Just found out a couple visits ago that Safford has a VERY nice range (owned by the city). The rifle range goes to 1000 meters and they have hanging steel apparently there all the time to at least 300 yards. Least it was the last time I was there. Also a 'Short Range' rifle range, and a couple pistol lines. It's unattended and free to use.

    Last time I was there I see it's not just California, as some previous shooter(s) left their cardboard boxes and some other junk for "Whoever' to clean up. My Dad went with me just to get out of the house and when I was done he and I policed it all up. It was a real chore as it must have been at least 30 yards to the dumpster, and took us maybe 3.5 minutes I really dislike seeing that kind of stuff.

    I wonder how your rifle would shoot if you removed the top handguard and the barrel bands?

    ..............Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

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    Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance

  18. #38
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    We have a similar range. Free to use, 1000 yards, a silhouette range with gongs out to 500 yards, skeet, small bore, blackpowder, archery. These teens come out in groups to show off their newest tactical Tupperware they can't hit anything with, and leave it all there. I do pick up a lot of their brass though!

    I am only 26 myself, but most here think I'm a fellow old fart.

    I am also curious how it does without the handguard, which is warped and does apply some odd pressure.

    My Lee Enfield is dead on with full velocity loads but a Lyman 314299 moving 1700fps makes it shoot 8 inches right. Tight groups though! I suspect how the rifle recoils against the shooter plays a big role too, more affected because it's in the bore longer.

    I'll keep this updated

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  19. #39
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    So the above 50 rnds produced this much leading. 2 tight patches and the bore is clean again. This is range alloy, not very hard. No lube star at the muzzle. Using a lithium beeswax lube just softer than traditional NRA. Also aluminum gas checks.



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  20. #40
    They are an excellent rifle and cartridge - better than the very short-necked 8x50R I think, apart from the odd bullet diameter, which if you are casting or sizing, you only have to solve once.

    An inexpensive 8.5mm hand reamer is .3346in., and enlarging an off-the-peg .321 or .323in. lubrisizer die should be an easy job. You would probably need to anneal it first, and preferably reharden it, although with lead and the amount of use a rifle like this likely to get, I don't believe that would be essential.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check