A "Quiet" Deer Rifle and Shot Placement Question.

[Outpost75]

My "garden deer gun" is a single-shot Beretta 412 in .45 ACP by John Taylor. Using a 255-grain cup-point cast 1:30 tin-lead, with 4 grains of Bullseye velocity is about 830 fps, but in the 26 inch barrel the gun makes no more noise than standard velocity .22 LR out of a sporting rifle. The bullet going "Whack~!" upon hitting the deer makes more noise than the gun going off.

With good shot placement, prefer head or neck shot if animal grazing, Bambi is DRT.
If walking aim for off-side shoulder, the .45 breaks them up so they can't run off. Coup de gras with a .32 revolver finishes the job neatly.

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[lucifers]

Looks like the right idea. As I posted earlier, easy to duplicate in a Ruger Ranch 450 BM.

If I sell some of guns I have for sale I might get one, put my 45ACP can on it and try subsonic loads.

[Arisaka99]

I guess now I have to start working up loads for my Arisaka again!


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[GhostHawk]

Crossbow would work, even a cheap one.

As for low noise rifle, I like Red Dot in very modest levels. 4.6 grains in .357 mag handi rifle below 158 gr round nose.

6 -7 grains in .444marlin below 220 grain cast in .444marlin brass. Essentially a moderate .44mag load in long brass. Not noisy at all. Keep the range inside 100 and you should be able to do it.

You want to set your stand planning for where that bullet "could" go. Treestand shooting down is good, or if you have a hill or ridge.

[rondog]

AND that neighbor would call the cops (who have zero understanding of G&F laws) and you would be in deep doodoo.

That was my point.....

[Montana Lee]

A quick call to fish and game to clarify the distance from house and road before there is trouble goes a long way. Ive shot lots of deer antelope and elk in the throat if you limit your shots to close range(100 yards) and squeek or chirp right before you squeeze they will pick up and look at you aim center throat under jaw and down they go. Its fast they drop where you want them and if your left or right the hydraulic shock still displaces the spine and they drop. From a meat perspective they still blead out cleanly and you end up with a better tasting harvest. If your in need of the hide for tanning or other projects you have a very clean non blood shot skin for use. As far as noise if you only shoot once most people even if they heard it wont know it was a gun shot

Good luck in your quest.

[docmagnum357]

The question you asked will get all kinds of responses. Some think it is unethical to shoot deer in the head/ neck and only aim for the shoulder or behind the shoulder, or whatever. Truth of the matter about any caliber will KILL, and about any bullet placement will KILL. The idea isn't to cause the death of the animal, the idea is to harvest the meat as cleanly , humanely, and expeditiously as possible. "Where is the best place to shoot a moose?" " Close to the truck!". Personally, I will shoot for the neck first. Head second, and High shoulder third. I have had all three result in DRT kills, and all three result in escaped animals, lost animals, and misses. How do you miss a feeding deer , from a rest, at 125 yards with a scoped rifle and a rest and all the time in the world Search me, but I have done it. Also hit running deer in the neck from considerable distances with a Smith N frame.
From what I know, play your percentages. Take the shot that has the highest likelihood of instant incapacitation and let the odds work out how they will. Less than 100 yards and a stationary deer? I am 99% with a .223. Less than 25 yards? 1911 45acp and a neck shot. Over 200 yards? I generally pass them up unless it is a long way to cover from where they are. I HATE to waste an animal. rather let the coyotes and old age take him than kill him and not eat him. it still happens. That is why they call it HUNTING, and not KILLING. Get close, be patient, know the limits of your tools, and do the best you can. If you make a hit and don't get a DRT, make the best effort you can to recover the carcass or find the wounded animal. I never was any good a blood trailing. If they made a readable blood trail, it usually ended within sight of the place I shot the animal. 'Course I live in briar patch country. Out West a man might be able to track a wounded, bleeding animal. Doesn't work in a honeysuckle patch as often as folks make out like it does. I have seen dogs get stymied looking for a deer with a hole in it as big as your hat. But always take the shot with the very best odds. And that is all we will all ever agree on.

[Dave W.]

It has been interesting to read the responses. Personally, shooting a deer in the head, using a 22LR, at 50 yards would not be a big deal . Would it be legal, not where I live? My thoughts would be to use the smallest rifle caliber that is legal where you live.

[country gent]

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is the angle the animal is at to you. This greatly affects where you need to aim to get to the vitals. You need a strong knowledge of where the vitals are in the animal and pay attention to the bullets line of travel. Behind the shoulder on a deer angled facing towards you might be a weak lung hit or gut shot. Same with a head shot or neck shot. Also if your on the ground or in a raised stand makes a big difference in aiming point. On a deer facing away at a heavy angle the aim point to the heart lungs may be just behind the ribs. At this angle the head shot would be just behind the ear. Look at a 3D bow target from different angles in relation to where things are and where you need to aim to get there.

We have some "nuisance" hunters here that specialize in removing problem animals In the sub burbs and cities. On most animals they prefer to live trap and dispose of later out of sight. On deer sized game working in close for a sure shot with a quiet round

[JSnover]

For nuisance/pest control, I'm with the guys who advise you to check the laws first and act carefully.

For a true SHTF scenario, use whatever you want. If the S has truly HTF there won't be any cops or lawyers and your neighbors (if you still have them) will have a different attitude about venison.

[high standard 40]

I have no ethical problems with a head/neck shot. I do have certain criteria that I apply. First is an accurate firearm and a reasonable distance, (each of which affect the other). I usually wait until the deer has it's head down feeding and is facing straight towards me. At that point, the instant kill zone is as mentioned 2" wide but much more than that vertically. I took my final deer of this season with an XP100 7BR at about 65 yards using this method. But I will say that if you are not capable or confident with this method, then by all means don't use it.

[Redleg11b]

Since this thread was revived, did you have the opportunity to get some meat Arisaka?

On to the original question now. I have shot a few deer with neck shots. The key, as stated, is know the anatomy. I like severing the spine at the skull. The deer do not move except by the force of gravity. If I miss high it is a clean miss, low and I get the arteries and wind pipe. Left or right will get a brain or further back on the spine. I also keep shots in a range I can keep my groups under 1.5" from the position I am shooting from (seated, kneeling, resting on a tree trunk or pack, etc.). I have shot a couple through the boiler room with good results, but they always tend to run a short distance. I like them to stop where they are.

[Outpost75]

The .45 ACP rifle is a well proven, viable option for culling deer at short ranges within 50 yards. Farther than that you will need something which would be too loud without a can. If the barrel is longer than 24 inches report with factory .45 ACP ammunition is very low. You could also use factory lead .45 Colts in a long barrelled cowboy rifle, but a solid lead bullet does not expand at subsonic velocity and is less effective here than a JHP. Velocity of these handgun rounds when fired from a rifle isn't much higher than you would get in an M1911 pistol, due to bore drag. So, you can't depending upon "extra" velocity from a rifle to make a marginal bullet perform. You want to use a well proven personal defense load with expanding bullet which performs very well at normal handgun velocity. The 230-grain JHP Speer Gold Dot is a stone killer from rifle, revolver or autopistol and is a great choice either in the factory ammo or any full-charge book handload.

If you cast your own use 1:30 or 1:40 tin-lead with a bullet having as large a meplat as possible, with a cup-point 0.7 of the meplat diameter with full radius cavity at least as deep as the major diameter of the cavity opening. It doesn't need to be deeper than that with soft 8-10 BHN alloy at 850-900 fps.

When sending your mold to Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com explain that you need minimum velocity upset "like an air rifle" and he will understand.

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[trapper9260]

When you shoot like the OP stated like someone else said one shot and they will not know where it is from.2 shoots they will start to pin point where it is coming from. I know because when i was small use to shoot cats in the yard and done the one shot with a 22lr. later on for the number of cats not show up on there run one of the ones caught on after some time and just let me know what cat was there to not shoot it. Also the round that is used the most by poachers is the 22lr. I seen it first hand of the head of 2 deer years ago. But a crossbow will do the job.I use that for the bow season here .I got a permit to use it. I normal get my deer with it.

[starmac]

Crossbow would be fine medicine for taking a deer, but not so good to drop them where they stand, or keeping them from getting to the neighbors yard.

[Tactical Lever]

Not sure if Arisaka99 is still looking, but I thought I would mention that a fast burning powder leaves less residual pressure at the end of the barrel, and a longer barrel helps keep it quiet.

I have an inbetween load for a .44 Mag that is a bit more than a .44 Spl. +P+, but less than a full house magnum, that is hardly louder than a .22 LR, out of a 20 inch barrel. I have also shot a 375 gr. cast bullet out of a 45-70 with a short 18" barrel that was very quiet also. I extrapolated a load using Bullseye and some 45 Colt data. I am guessing a bit below sub sonic (which is where you want to be), and probably quieter than a .22.

Just my opinion, but the Hornet is loud for such work, and needs a full power load to be an improvement over a LR. I wouldn't go for the neck or head if I could help it, due to the possibility of wounding, and the low speed won't break a neck from shock alone.

I would probably use my .44 with heavy for caliber bullets, and Bullseye, or a similar load for the .45-70. Big flat nose and cast.

[shortlegs]

45-70 with 405 gr boolit over 13 gr unique. Penetrates like crazy so watch whats behind your intended target. fairly quiet in long barrel.

[Rick Hodges]

The crossbow is accurate and quiet but it kills by hemorrhage. Deer can go quite a distance and the neighbors may indeed be upset to watch a deer bleed out in front of their picture window. His best solution is the one his wife found for him.

[RP]

Sooner or later that critter your trying to harvest will run off into someone yard that is not real friendly about shooting any kind of animal. The risk is not worth the reward most of the time if its not legal do not do it.

[Arisaka99]

Figured I'd drop an update since this got bumped.

I've been hunting with my Arisaka, I've just been sliding down in toward the bottom of the holler.
Both neighbors are fine with my hunting back there, and I set up a chair blind this week.

First day out, within 5 minutes I had 5 does run down the bottom of the holler, but had too many small branches and weeds in the way, so they got to run free.