Saa bolt question

[holsterguy]

I'm working on a Uberti copy of a Colt saa. Just replaced the hammer and trigger to get rid of the new safety they started using. Now the bolt pops up later than before, almost right into the locking slot. Does this mean that I need to shorten the length of the bolt arm? I'd prefer it to pop up at the start of the lead notch like it should.

[45 Dragoon]

Yes.
The general rule is one bolt width in front of the notch.

Mike

[holsterguy]

Thanks, thats what I thought, on AGI's video it looked like he increased the top angle cut, and that just didn't seem right. Appreciate the response!!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

He probably did increase the angle, which is an old trick/technique to make the notch capture the bolt. It is a time shortcut for those who work on a lot of them, but originally the fitting was more precise.

Do you have Kuhnhausen's Colt SAA book?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

https://youtu.be/CDyn81ALaPc

I had the same problem. I had to polish the burs off the hammer cam as explained in the video. Just out of curiosity, do you have a Cattleman or the new Cattleman II?


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[45 Dragoon]

2ndAmendmentNut,
When you read the section on "timing" in the excellent Kuhnhausen book you display in the video (just assuming it's you from your comment), you'll understand that your revolver timing is quite late. The bolt should drop a bolt width before the notch. In other words, the edge of the bolt itself should be almost in alignment with the short side of the locking notch. Your revolver's bolt is dropping on the edge of the notch which will eventually move metal into the notch, preventing reliable lockup.
This isn't meant as a dig or slam but the comment in the video describes the timing as "excellent". I say hardly . . . .

After posting, I viewed to video again and I realize the person in the vid says " bolt drop" when showing bolt "withdrawal". Bolt " drop" is when the bolt "drops" onto the surface of the cylinder (because it's checked with the revolver upside down, in the factory (it's even in the book!), just like the person does in the vid.). Bolt "withdrawal" is the bolt withdrawing from the notch and into the frame. Just so we're all on the same page . . . .


As far as the safety block on the hammer, when deployed, it is sandwiched between the hammer and the frame which wouldn't leave any room for the hammer to be forced forward to allow breakage of the sear. Of course, it's a personal choice and I rather like this particular safety device. I'd hate to need 6 and only have 5 . . . . but, then again, I'd hate to need 7 and only have 6 . . . . oh well, choices . . .

Mike

[2ndAmendmentNut]

45 Dragoon, as I acknowledged in the video I am not an expert smith. What little I know I learned from reading Mr. Kuhnhausen’s book. Apparently I could benefit from a 4th or 5th read through. Thank you for the clarification on proper timing and terminology. The new hammer certainly fits better than the original though. The one that came in the gun from the factory would allow the bolt to drop very late and I could easily get the cylinder to over rotate when cocking quickly.

As far breaking the sear, I was talking about standard Colt style hammers.

Again thank you, I always learn the most by posting wrong information.


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[45 Dragoon]

2ndAmend.,
I appreciate that you didn't take my post as a big negative!! And, that book is one the finest technical manuals I've seen. I learned what I know from Mr. Jim Martin who I consider one of the most knowledgeable S.A.A. tuners alive today. Mr. Martin (listed in that book) provided much of the technical info/how to's/why to's not to mention the illustrations in the manual.

I just wanted to put the brakes on any "misinformation" before it became "gospel" lol!!

Also, I should have pointed out that rarely is there any a truly "drop in" part in a single action of any make. Almost all of the new examples I work on have late bolt drop and short hands. I install a bolt block in every revolver I service and it almost always exposes a short hand. A bolt block makes the action very "accurate" and gives a very solid lockup among other benefits. For this reason, the "close enough" fitting that folks get from the factory are the "norm" and for the "unwashed", that's fine. It functions so it's. . . . . right. Ok

The original poster posted this in another forum (great to have such a vast base to pull info from!! I've learned a lot myself!!) and I answered in a more technical way there, and now here, just to show there's "fixing" a problem and then there's "Fixing" the problem without causing new ones or finding out the proper procedure . . . after the fact.

Glad your S.A. is up and running with the setup you like ( it's personal and I totally understand that) . The good news is, there's still plenty of "meat" still on those parts so, at some point, you will be able to truly have an excellent revolver with "perfect" timing!! The answers are all in that book!!

Thanks for letting me speak,
Mike

[holsterguy]

45 dragoon- thanks for helpin out. Was wondrin if you were the same guy from the other forum.
Second amendmentnut- it is the plain cattleman (had to look at the box to be sure). Was expecting the two position base pin safety and got the retractable firing pin. Emailed Taylors to complain that it wasn't what I ordered. A woman in managing who's name I forget, answered saying that Uberti has done away with the other safeties. Now any that are imported to the US will have this new one. If you are like me and want the traditional feel of the saa, it sucks. There is only three click instead of four ( the safety notch on the hammer isn't even there). It doesn't feel "right" at all.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

A woman in managing who's name I forget, answered saying that Uberti has done away with the other safeties. Now any that are imported to the US will have this new one. If you are like me and want the traditional feel of the saa, it sucks. There is only three click instead of four ( the safety notch on the hammer isn't even there). It doesn't feel "right" at all.

Man that is sad to hear. Not only does the retracting firing pin deviate from tradition, it seems like a rather weak design compared to a transfer bar safety.

Over on the SASS forum I’ve noticed a number of threads pop up complaining about light primer strikes with these new hammers. I think an average shooter won’t notice 1-3 misfires per 100 rounds, but for a SASS shooter that is unacceptable. Sad to see Uberti ignoring their base.


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[Wayne Smith]

Well - Uberti is Beretta now!