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Thread: TC Hawken .45

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
    Eddie Southgate's Avatar
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    The 777 is absolutely not corrosive . The Pyrodex on the other hand is very corrosive , more so in my opinion than real black powder . My dad was a fan of the 777 , I shoot real black mostly . You can always throw 10 grains of black First and then the rest of your charge in 777 . Let the black light the sub . I have done this with a flint gun and Pyrodex back before I figured out that it was not something I wanted to be shooting anyway . I found a closeout at Walmart one year after hunting season and bought 15 pounds at $5.00 per pound so I had to try it . Gave most of it to a guy I really didn't like much .

    Eddie
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Have quite a few T/C sidelocks. 58 54 50 & 45. The 45 Hawken is my favorite for deer hunting. 45s are not like its Brother-en calibers in recoil. Instead of a sharp kick the 45 is more of a rearward push on the shoulder. About the same as a 410 2-1/2" shot-shell. Being your Hawken has a new barrel expect the first few patched ball rod'ed to be a bit difficult. Although

    Before shooting you need to determine if there is a ball in the barrel? If not encountering a previous seated ball.

    Drop the ram rod down the barrel all the way to the breech. Then circle mark the Rod at muzzles end. Some shooters lightly mark their Ram Rod with a razor blade others prefer a Sharpie. That's called: (Ledger Marking a Ram Rod.) __Doing prevents its shooter from thinking "Gee I forgot? did I ram a ball down or not?" Drop the rifles Rod into the bore its Ledger Mark never lies.

    My first shot is my best shot so I like its patched ball to be a little {tighter} bore fitting. That ball measures .445 w/a OxYoke .010" patch. Following/follow-up shots are .440 ball with the same size patch. Expect to fire off 3 maybe 4 shots depending on how fouled the bore is. There after the bore needs to be wet swabbed than dry swabbed before its firing again. Don't forget to fire off a Cap before loading to clear its Firing channel of debre or water.

    I don't use troublesome substitute powders (pyrodex RS or P _American Pioneer or Alliant's Black MZ ) or powders designed to be used in inlines (T-777-or-Black Horn 209) Only Gorex 2-FFG Black Powder. Volume measured to 78.

    I tried 3-FFFG Gorex. But I quickly found 2-FFG Gorex gave a bit better accuracy in my powder experiments.
    As far as a patching lube? OxYoke Wonder Lube is my recommendation. T/C's Bore Butter isn't as good as the Wonder lube is. Just more messy is all.
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy KMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooman76 View Post
    +1 on that. I don't think they would intentionally steer you wrong but some don't realize a ML is a completely different animal. I've heard of them selling or trying to sell smokeless powder to someone wanting ML supplies.
    That is funny you say that. Ran to Cabelas today to see what they had. They did not have any #11 caps that I️ could see. Asked the guy there if they might have any in another location and he did not even know what they were. Then he started showing me the Inline that he wanted to buy. Kinda scary. However some of the guys that work there know their stuff. Most donít.
    " It has been a long-standing policy of mine to never argue with idiots and women" Jeff Quinn

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy KMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverMax View Post
    Have quite a few T/C sidelocks. 58 54 50 & 45. The 45 Hawken is my favorite for deer hunting. 45s are not like its Brother-en calibers in recoil. Instead of a sharp kick the 45 is more of a rearward push on the shoulder. About the same as a 410 2-1/2" shot-shell. Being your Hawken has a new barrel expect the first few patched ball rod'ed to be a bit difficult. Although

    Before shooting you need to determine if there is a ball in the barrel? If not encountering a previous seated ball.

    Drop the ram rod down the barrel all the way to the breech. Then circle mark the Rod at muzzles end. Some shooters lightly mark their Ram Rod with a razor blade others prefer a Sharpie. That's called: (Ledger Marking a Ram Rod.) __Doing prevents its shooter from thinking "Gee I forgot? did I ram a ball down or not?" Drop the rifles Rod into the bore its Ledger Mark never lies.

    My first shot is my best shot so I like its patched ball to be a little {tighter} bore fitting. That ball measures .445 w/a OxYoke .010" patch. Following/follow-up shots are .440 ball with the same size patch. Expect to fire off 3 maybe 4 shots depending on how fouled the bore is. There after the bore needs to be wet swabbed than dry swabbed before its firing again. Don't forget to fire off a Cap before loading to clear its Firing channel of debre or water.

    I don't use troublesome substitute powders (pyrodex RS or P _American Pioneer or Alliant's Black MZ ) or powders designed to be used in inlines (T-777-or-Black Horn 209) Only Gorex 2-FFG Black Powder. Volume measured to 78.

    I tried 3-FFFG Gorex. But I quickly found 2-FFG Gorex gave a bit better accuracy in my powder experiments.
    As far as a patching lube? OxYoke Wonder Lube is my recommendation. T/C's Bore Butter isn't as good as the Wonder lube is. Just more messy is all.
    Thank you very much. More great advice. I️ really appreciate it. I️ will look up the Ox Yoke Wonder lube. Seems like I️ saw it at Track of the Wolf.
    " It has been a long-standing policy of mine to never argue with idiots and women" Jeff Quinn

  5. #25
    KMac,

    I have a .50 Hawken from about 1977 - 78. It shoots Patched Round Balls & Powerbelts very well. It will even shoot my RCBS 45-300 cast bullet in a sabot very well. I do use FFFG Triple Seven with Remington #11 caps with no issues. I must warn you that Thompson Center no longer builds Side Locks, and the replacement nipple 7070 is over .100" shorter than the originals. I discovered this a few years back but found an exact replacement for them, Treso's Ampco Nipple # 11-50-01.
    You can see my discovery on, http://1858remington.com/discuss/ind...html#msg161954

    AntiqueSledMan

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy KMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiqueSledMan View Post
    KMac,

    I have a .50 Hawken from about 1977 - 78. It shoots Patched Round Balls & Powerbelts very well. It will even shoot my RCBS 45-300 cast bullet in a sabot very well. I do use FFFG Triple Seven with Remington #11 caps with no issues. I must warn you that Thompson Center no longer builds Side Locks, and the replacement nipple 7070 is over .100" shorter than the originals. I discovered this a few years back but found an exact replacement for them, Treso's Ampco Nipple # 11-50-01.
    You can see my discovery on, http://1858remington.com/discuss/ind...html#msg161954

    AntiqueSledMan
    AntiqueSledMan,
    Thank you for the info.
    I️ bought some Remington #11 caps because that is all I️ could find locally.
    Good to hear that they worked for you.
    I️ will look up Trescoís Ampco replacement nipples and get some ordered.
    Thanks again.



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    " It has been a long-standing policy of mine to never argue with idiots and women" Jeff Quinn

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    If wanting a nipple to last & last do not dry fire your rifles lock.
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy

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    While 777 is noncorrosive the caps are not so don't let it sit overnight after use without wiping down the nipple and area around it including the hammer, then apply oil. The barrel can wait a while.

  9. #29
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    dondiego's Avatar
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    I thought that modern percussion caps were non corrosive just like normal cartridge primers. Do they use a different compound?

  10. #30
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    Eddie Southgate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dondiego View Post
    I thought that modern percussion caps were non corrosive just like normal cartridge primers. Do they use a different compound?
    CCI claims Non Corrosive and non mercuric . I would imagine all the other modern caps are the same . Most of mine are 30 years old or older and are corrosive . I wipe down with Windex and then oil , would advise the same with the modern caps as stated above by rond .
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy KMac's Avatar
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    I️ did not know that the caps may be corrosive. Thank you guys for that info. I️ think I️ will take Rond and Eddie Southgates advice and wipe the nipple down and oil it just to be sure.


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    " It has been a long-standing policy of mine to never argue with idiots and women" Jeff Quinn

  12. #32
    Boolit Master

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    It's a good idea to remove the nipple once in awhile to clean and oil the threads. Otherwise you may have difficulty one time removing the nipple when it needs replaced. I do like every other time I shoot.
    Aim small, miss small!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooman76 View Post
    It's a good idea to remove the nipple once in awhile to clean and oil the threads. Otherwise you may have difficulty one time removing the nipple when it needs replaced. I do like every other time I shoot.
    +1 100% . Also do not over tighten , screw it in till it stops and no more .
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooman76 View Post
    It's a good idea to remove the nipple once in awhile to clean and oil the threads. Otherwise you may have difficulty one time removing the nipple when it needs replaced. I do like every other time I shoot.
    I use a metal based anti seize thread grease.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooman76 View Post
    It's a good idea to remove the nipple once in awhile to clean and oil the threads. Otherwise you may have difficulty one time removing the nipple when it needs replaced. I do like every other time I shoot.
    Another amen to that. I take out the nipple after every shooting day to clean it after I fully clean the barrel then grease the threads before replacing the nipple.

  16. #36
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    If you have trouble getting real bp you can go to sportsmans warehouse and by black MZ for $10.00 a pound. Over the years I have had several cap locks and found that almost anything that is to be used in bp firearms works some better than others you just have to try and find out. Some 45 calibers like a .440 round ball, others like .445 round ball and still others like smaller round balls. Pay attention to your patching material, lube you use. try and load the same way each time you load. With the tc side locks you can take the barrel out of the rifle and use soap and water to clean, I like to use dawn and as hot of water as I can still hold onto the barrel. I have done that for almost 40 years now and it has worked for me YMMV.
    Beware of a government that fears its citizens having the means to protect themselves.
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  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy KMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shdwlkr View Post
    If you have trouble getting real bp you can go to sportsmans warehouse and by black MZ for $10.00 a pound. Over the years I have had several cap locks and found that almost anything that is to be used in bp firearms works some better than others you just have to try and find out. Some 45 calibers like a .440 round ball, others like .445 round ball and still others like smaller round balls. Pay attention to your patching material, lube you use. try and load the same way each time you load. With the tc side locks you can take the barrel out of the rifle and use soap and water to clean, I like to use dawn and as hot of water as I can still hold onto the barrel. I have done that for almost 40 years now and it has worked for me YMMV.
    I have been out of town for work this week and I finally got a little time this evening to clean it . I ran a patch down the barrel and it was dirty. Pulled the barrel off and ran soap and water down it. It was clean pretty quick. This Hawken had sat in my wife's Uncle's shop in the corner, barrel up for probably 10 years without being touched. Even thought the barrel had never been shot since it was put on new it had collected a lot of dirt and such just sitting there. I am getting clean patches now and I think it was just from setting there and collecting dust. I am going to try to make the time to go and shoot it this weekend and I think I have every thing I need to get started. Thanks to all of you who have given advice on this. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate each and every one of you. I will let you know how it goes.
    " It has been a long-standing policy of mine to never argue with idiots and women" Jeff Quinn

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    All these guys beat me to the good info!! Mostly, I could repeat what they said. It's all good info. Each gun is a thing unto itself. Even if all the above works, your gun might prefer this or that over that or this. You just have to experiment for yourself. I've always found real black to be more accurate than substitutes, just dirtier. 777 is more energetic than Pyrodex, but they both work. I've had many 777 loads more accurate than Pyrodex, but then a few Pyrodex loads have been more accurate than 777. Depends on your gun / boolit combo I think. Musket caps provide more flame and are much easier to handle than those tiny #11 caps. (at least for my sausage like fingers). In a clean gun, they both work just fine. A marked ram rod is essential to determine if a gun is loaded or not. Use it every time. In preparing a gun to shoot, I snap a cap in the EMPTY gun with a cleaning rod inserted and a dry cleaning patch attached. Any oil / solvent in the nipple area is broadcast onto the patch and then is removed when the rod is withdrawn. NEVER dry fire on a naked nipple. It bends the nipple. In the .45 calibers, I prefer FFFg type powders but FFg also work. (use less FFFg than FFg when working up your loads). When done shooting, clean the gun with a water based solvent - or even just hot water. Remove the nipple, swab the barrel, tooth brush / Q-tip the hammer -- basically everything in sight. I dry it and then leave it wet with a solvent / rust preventative for a day or two, and then I clean it all over again. No matter how well I clean it the first time, I always get more off the second time. The solvents keep working and dislodging debris as it sits around. Left unattended, that debris will lead to corrosion. Good luck & have fun.

  19. #39
    Boolit Mold
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    What 725 said. I have a 45 Green Mountain LR barrel on mine and have always shot 3F T-7. In my rifle it shoots great

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooman76 View Post
    It's a good idea to remove the nipple once in awhile to clean and oil the threads. Otherwise you may have difficulty one time removing the nipple when it needs replaced. I do like every other time I shoot.
    Better yet remove /clean and then apply never seize found at your auto parts store and never get stuck again

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check