Really short Flintlock Rifles

[Geezer in NH]

I prefer to stand rather than bend on my knee's however your choose what you do.

[wonderwolf]

About the time my dad gifted me a 1803 Harpers Ferry .54 Flintlock he picked up a .54 left hand canoe rifle....Short little guy but Oh it looks fun. Looks like it would be handy but a bit of a pain to load as its shorter and not as easy to load whilst standing.

[rodwha]

I prefer to stand rather than bend on my knee's however your choose what you do.

Oh I will. However this isn't the standing or kneeling issue you want to make it out to be. Some people prefer to avoid problems such as like I stated. A few inches isn't going to make or break the intended use, though those few inches may well save a hunt or some time and well worth that to me. There's no need to attempt to ruffle someone up with comments because of such, though I also understand the gravity of what you mean. This, to me, just isn't one of those types of freedom's I see a need to make a point of. And that's fine if you do, though it sounds more as though it's a chest puffing thing, but whatever. This is a free country, and as long as you obey the laws it's good for the most part. However the law is a bit vague from what some have pointed out in that chopping a rifle down isn't the same thing as a gun built that way. Lawyers have a way of using loopholes and vagueness to their advantage and it seems the wiser thing to avoid something trivial like a few inches. If you'd like to be the first to go to court over such to see is your choice if that's what you care for. Seems a ridiculous thing to gamble with unless you know for sure. But doesn't that also depend on the judge's interpretation if it isn't in black and white on the books? By all means pave the way so fellas considering such won't have need to ask. Now owning/using an arm designed as such the law is on your side, assuming the state doesn't say otherwise (not sure if any do or not, but mine follows the Feds). I don't know the law concerning chopping rifles down and whether or not it breaks the law. I just don't see much advantage to doing so anyway. But that's me. Everyone is entitled to their ideas and opinions. No one is trying to force you to see it their way or change your mind.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Subscribed

[rodwha]

Of interest according to the Feds on this issue:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...itions-antique

Of course your state may state otherwise... This is the first time (it's dated 2016) I've seen the vagueness taken away.

[bigted]

That is very helpfull. Thanks for posting the link

[Buckshot Bill]

I have a CVA .54 that has been cut to 14" it still spits out a .530 RB @ 1400 fps and a Maxi Ball at near 1200 fps w/ 100grns. It suffers no accuracy issues either.

[Buckshot Bill]

heres the thing....

do states actually have energy or velocity requirements for muzzle loaders?

barrel requirements for muzzle loaders?

Ohio lists no such provision that I can find, only that it must me .38 or larger

Indiana does have caliber and barrel length requirements on BP handguns

"Muzzleloading handguns are allowed. The muzzleloading handgun must be single shot, .50 caliber or larger, loaded with bullets at least .44 caliber and have a barrel at least 12 inches long, measured from the base of the breech plug excluding tangs and other projections to the end of the barrel, including the muzzle crown."

[Good Cheer]

Foot and a half barrels on a volley gun might be fun.

[rodwha]

Measured my Lyman Deerstalker, which is what I'd get another barrel to have shortened and in .54 cal, and found that to keep the first barrel/thimble I couldn't go much below 17" (measured my rod down the bore which doesn't account for the patent chamber, which shows 23.5"). Could move the keeper spring and barrel and lose 2" but I don't see that being worth the expense.

[Good Cheer]

rodwha,
the Deerstalker has got everything. Short, stout, handy, powerful.
If I'd a run upon a low priced 2nd hand Deerstalker that's what the Critter Getter project would have been based upon instead of a Traditions Deerhunter.

[rodwha]

rodwha,
the Deerstalker has got everything. Short, stout, handy, powerful.
If I'd a run upon a low priced 2nd hand Deerstalker that's what the Critter Getter project would have been based upon instead of a Traditions Deerhunter.

When looking for my first muzzleloader I wanted something handy and light that would work as a stalking rifle or a fixed position (blind) rifle. My affordable other choices were the Pedersoli Country Hunter and Traditions Deerhunter. I wasn't confident in a PRB then and figured I'd likely go with a conical and reading or people complaining about recoil and figuring it wasn't too different than a .45-70 Gov't I thought the recoil pad would be worth its weight in gold along with fiber optic sights.

I don't care for the sights and I'm not so sure the recoil pad is necessary. However I like the cheap drop-in barrels I can work.

[rodwha]

Typically it seems a twist can handle a shorter projectile better than it can handle one that's longer for the twist. But then it also seems to depend on velocity such as going from a 1:48" twist rifle to 1:30" twist pistol both meant for PRB.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't doubt the gun that started this thread would on kill a deer quite effectively at short range. But getting one for the purpose, when it bring only... what advantage...? is another matter. There isn't much point in talking about kneeling down or standing up, when there are better guns available for the job. For velocity, sight-base, trajectory and steadiness, at least twenty inches would be a big help, and thirty better still. Portability? I find it a lot easier to carry a gun that you can rest on your shoulder without pointing at your ear or chin as you step over slippery branches, or can be dropped on its butt with much less chance of pointing at biomass.

Accuracy, apart from a curved trajectory, needn't be much of an issue. It was pretty mediocre in that film, but it looked like that ball was started with only the mildest of pressure, and was very imperfectly shaped. As for the difference from a revolver, it would be more powerful on the first shot, but a deer making a rude gesture and running before the second.

I doubt very much if that gun was mid-eighteenth century. Unless someone was very inventive, the rainproof pan makes it a late flintlock. I wouldn't bear surprised if it was some sort of composite - not just a shortened barrel, since it has a swamped barrel. I'd want to have that barrel out, and see if the matching barrel channel really matches, and has done so for a long time.

The gun certainly looks Germanic, but I think it is more likely to have been a coach-travelling carbine, giving a big advantage over a highwayman's pistols. In the UK (and perhaps Holland, with the name) it would probably have bemore much en a smoothbore blunderbuss of much larger calibre, often not truly bell-mouthed as the legend claims, but greatly enlarged at the muzzle to tame recoil with weight, and to stop fingers straying where they would come to grief. Those rings on the muzzle, in the video, may be engraved ornamentation, but they could be to hide a rifled liner.

I doubt if it was made that short for use on horseback. I have a Mortimer sporting double shotgun which I believe was made particularly long-barrelled for this purpose. Terminal pressure, and thus muzzle blast, would be high with a short barrel, and it takes a very well-trained horse to tolerate that over his head. He can easily learn to shy or demand his orders in writing when he senses game, or thinks you are about to.

[doc1876]

Amazingly fast lock time.