45-70 Donkey Kick

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I quit using bullets heavier than 350 grains in a Marlin 45-70 in 1980. Under 350 yards, on many elk and a moose, 300's work just fine. Recoil and trajectory are the reason. Maybe for black powder long range the 500+ in 12-16 lb rifles, but for fun 300's work fine. My hunting load is a Federal 215M, 58 grains 2015 and a Barnes Original 300 (NOT X) -2150 fps. Recoil is miserable in my early Marlin 1895, but it is a killer. I shoot maybe 30-40 rounds a year at this level. For fun the RCBS 300 FN GC at about 1400-1500 fps using 4198 or Reloder 7, much more enjoyable, 50-100 rounds can be enjoyed at an outing. Enduring recoil WITHOUT REASON is just dumb, not tough.

[pmer]

Al, look for loads using IMR 3031 & IMR 4895. You can charge cases up to about 52.0 grains with 405 grain boolits. My shoulder says no to 4198/RE7 because the recoil smacks like a mule kick. With 3031 you'll be in the high teens for velocity and the recoil will be noticeably "easier".

If you don't have any get a pound and try it. 1895 Marlins want to go fast it shows accuracy wise.

[Rick Hodges]

I load a 300 gr. Remington or Hornady JHP at 1880 fps out of my guide gun. It is plenty for deer. Shoots flat enough for a 150yd. point blank range and doesn't bruise my shoulder.

Most Marlins are happier with bullets or boolits that are under 405 gr. unless modified to aid in feeding longer ones. I found Varget leaves a lot of unburned powder behind unless loaded hotter than I liked.

I have found that mine will feel reliably with rounds with a maximum coa of 2.550 but the heaviest I shoot is a 385 gr. Mountain mold cast that is profiled similar to the Ranch Dog 350.

[buckshotshoey]

I load a 300 gr. Remington or Hornady JHP at 1880 fps out of my guide gun. It is plenty for deer. Shoots flat enough for a 150yd. point blank range and doesn't bruise my shoulder.

Most Marlins are happier with bullets or boolits that are under 405 gr. unless modified to aid in feeding longer ones. I found Varget leaves a lot of unburned powder behind unless loaded hotter than I liked.

I have found that mine will feel reliably with rounds with a maximum coa of 2.550 but the heaviest I shoot is a 385 gr. Mountain mold cast that is profiled similar to the Ranch Dog 350.

I found the same thing. The Varget started burning cleaner when I got above 48 grains. Went to 50 grains, burned clean and is accurate.

[Rick R]

In my experience using Varget in cartridges from .223 to .458Lott it seems happier if slightly compressed. It may not be the perfect powder but it works well.

I never did see what rifle the original poster is loading for?

[Geezer in NH]

Get and wear a past recoil shield or stop winning,

[RED BEAR]

Never loaded for 45/70 but shot a good number. Been donkey kicked a few times with my 444 usually less powder or less bullet cures it.

[ghh3rd]

I tried a few loads for my 45-70 with 405 gr and 425 gr boolits, and I have to say that they were quite stout, but that nice pad that came on the rifle really works.

When I tried the Ranch Dog 350gr TL boolit over 43 gr. of IMR-4198 sized at .460 I had the best accuracy yet from my Marlin 1895, with 1" groups at 100 yds. I didn't chrony it, but was told it should be about 1800+ fps.

I may go back and try the 405gr again sometime, but here in Florida 305gr is plenty for even the biggest hog out there.

[straphanger]

I have a Browning 1886 Winchester carbine reproduction. Nice rifle w a beautiful barrel. On my first outing, I shot a box of Nitrex (?) cowboy loads plinking. These were cream puffs. I decided to reload some real bullets and geared up with the RCBS 405 gr mold. An article in an old copy of Handloader recommended 45 grains of 3031 as a good all around load. I think that gets the velocity up to about 1550 fps.

That changed the shooting experience considerably! This time I was shooting off the bench, loading rounds one at a time, so the rifle was relatively light. After 20 rounds of those, I decided the best way to validate accuracy and function was to stuff the magazine full and shoot off hand at 50 yards. That improves the experience, but it is still an attention getter. I try to take it out once a year just to enjoy shooting a real rifle, curved steel butt plate, open sights, recoil and all.

[HangFireW8]

Now im in need of some advice on which direction i should take this load development. Should i keep the short high pressured COAL but scale it down to 38gr-46gr or go back to the original but seat deeper maybe 0.010"?

My first COAL rule (especially for levers) is load to a COAL that is most reliable for feed & eject, especially eject of a loaded cartridge (since this can be more problematic than a fired case).

My second COAL rule is that seating the boolit out further USUALLY means more accuracy. Less bullet jump means less time for getting crooked before it seats itself in the throat.

After initial load development, and I've found something accurate, I may refine a load by changing one variable at a time in fine steps- a load ladder of 1/10 grain of powder increments, or changing COAL .010" steps, etc., but only one variable at a time.

Rule #1 can get complicated if you have more than one gun of the same chambering, and they have different preferences.

[Texas by God]

I got 405 cast Lymans up to 2000 fps in my .450 Marlin and was SO glad I only loaded 20 rds. I went back to the 340s around 1600 fps and life was fun again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Ken]

Think Lead sled?

[EDG]

Gotta say that was the most painful load development i've experienced and had to tap out half ways through. Found out why this load dev. was painful compared to the loads i tested for funcionality last week. I seated the bullet at 2.075 compared to the original 2.100. I did this last minute because i noticed there were 2-3 that didnt want to chamber correctly. The original COAL had large recoil but wasn't painful. Today even the starting point i felt a donkey kick me. Ask the range officer who was watching me if he could try it out to see if its just me being a ***** but he said "no way, aint shooting it. i can tell from here that load is too hot".

Using lyman 49 for a 410gr pc cast bullet i started at 45gr of varget, 46, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55. Tapped out at 48, shot up to 52 on the sled then decided ill just pull the rest. there was no sense in me just shooting off a sled and going higher up when i wouldn't dare shoot them off hand regardless of how accurate they looked on the sled. First time i tested these out at the longer coal, i was able to shoot up to 55gr. I did however find 46gr to group all in the same hole with the shorter length so thats the only good news i took home from that if i ever want a really hot and accurate load.

Now im in need of some advice on which direction i should take this load development. Should i keep the short high pressured COAL but scale it down to 38gr-46gr or go back to the original but seat deeper maybe 0.010"?

Your powder is too slow and the charge is way too heavy.
Try Imr 4227 or 4198. Use only enough to go 1100 fps like a .22 LR.
Stock breaking loads are useless since they are no fun.

[three50seven]

Just buy a 450 Marlin or 458 Win if you want to be punished. There's no reason to push a 45/70 past trap-door levels