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Thread: Bore discoloration?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy zubrato's Avatar
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    Bore discoloration?

    Hi Everyone.

    New to powdercoating, so I'll do my best to describe the issue I'm having.

    It's not residue, or fouling. After running a dry patch through the bore, it's mirror shiny. However, from the side I notice the bore is discolored. I noticed it's the same color as the smoke fouling on the muzzle of the gun after firing. It looks perfectly clean unless you look at it from the side, but there's no visible deposit anywhere..

    I can't get this stuff off, tried Ed's Red, chore boy, and even Hoppes 9 with copper fouling remover. Scrubbed at it for a while too with no luck.

    I'm using HF red, letting it coat in a dry tumbler, baking at 20 minutes at 400 (havent measured to confirm, but I see the powdercoating melting, and all rounds have passed the smash test easily) and dumping into cold water to regain some hardness.
    Because I wasn't sure, I gave them a second bake, for another 20 minutes, at 420 this time, so I was confident the powdercoating was correctly baked on.

    Load is 3.4gr Titegroup with a no lube groove 142gr boolit.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    My best guess is the TG burns too hot, and hot gas deposits some of the powdercoating onto the barrel? It's consistent, super thin, resistant to solvents, and doesn't follow the rifling.

    Suggestions?
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    I use the Tight Group as well. About 4 grains in 9mm with the Lee 125 grainer. I use Smoke PC powder. I have also pushed PC bullets in my riffles pretty hard. While I have detected a whiff of burning plastic. Keep an eye on it. I would clean as normal. Maybe take a metal dentist tool to it. See if it chips off or is smooth or creates snags. I really wouldn't worry about it as long my gun was accurate. if my gun started to be inaccurate then i would suspect that discoloration. Really cant see it being a problem as long as your riffling is nice an sharp. Maybe put a few jacketed bullets down it. I have done that for some badly leaded barrels. About the only thing i can think of that would dissolve plastic is acetone. Might not be a problem to begin with.

    As long as the bullets passed the smash test. Then your coating and method was fine and properly cured.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy zubrato's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply! Just got back to say I tried straight acetone with little to no effect.
    My next step is probably going to be fire some jacketed rounds, and finish up the rest of this batch of bullets.

    Sometimes I also get a whiff of burning plastic, btw.

    One thing of note, I will be switching to Eastwood Light Ford Blue powdercoat for my next batch, and I hope this weird color goes away.
    Recycle, Reuse, Reload.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    You described it well when you said 'discoloration' because there seems to be no residue, no substance there...a mystery.

    We have seen this twice before and both times we thought that it was from improper cure of the PC and one of the batches was Harbor Freight stuff, the other was a high quality clear gloss. What both coatings had in common was that they weren't properly cured at 400* F.
    Since then I've gotten a reliable thermometer for the oven and paid closer attention...the problem has never reoccured.

    I scrubbed that barrel with acetone over and over with no appreciable resolve, finally gave up on it as it did not affect the accuracy. Can't say whether it ever came out as it's in a carbine owned by a friend I haven't seen in a year.

    Nowadays using the thermometer, watching cure time and only quality PC I haven't seen this condition anymore.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    try shooting jackets through it
    may clean it out
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  6. #6
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    it could be the powder too.
    titegroup will break down powder coating and many plastics.
    you don't want to leave the stuff in your powder hopper for too long.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy zubrato's Avatar
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    I will cast more in the coming week or two, and see if the HF red is more sensitive than the Eastwood ford light blue to attack by the powder.
    I’ve also noticed that TG likes to attack powder hoppers, have switched one out thanks to RCBS. Most of the damage was the previous owner, but the TG finished the job.

    I should add, the load was very accurate and clean. I don’t think whatever is left in the barrel currently had a negative impact on accuracy.

    After running lubed boolits in my g19 for so many years, I really took for granted how the bullet lubricant tends to self lubricate the gun. The smoke fouling from the PC is very dry and I could feel the slide returning to battery sluggishly after a press check or two. (Fresh recoil spring)

    Not my best work, but definitely not my worst.
    15 rounds at 10 yards


    Being as this is my carry gun, I’m going to run some jacketed rounds tomorrow at the range and see if there’s any improvement.
    Kind of wish I had a test barrel to see if it would eventually build up, though.


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    Recycle, Reuse, Reload.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Personally I wouldn't worry about it. You've stated it is not a built up fouling and accuracy is unaffected. If it really bothers you, Iosso on a tight patch with some good back and forth will get it gone. JB's bore compound will do the same. They'll both get hard carbon from the throat on a rifle, so plastic has no chance against it. If you don't like that idea (it won't harm the bore for this light chore though) you can use a shotgun bore cleaner. Brownells makes a good one for shotgun wads and it'll remove the fouling from shotgun wads. Careful with it as it melts, well it melts plastic.....

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    Quote: I'm using HF red, letting it coat in a dry tumbler, baking at 20 minutes at 400 (havent measured to confirm, but I see the powdercoating melting, and all rounds have passed the smash test easily) and dumping into cold water to regain some hardness.
    Because I wasn't sure, I gave them a second bake, for another 20 minutes, at 420 this time, so I was confident the powdercoating was correctly baked on. /Quote

    without knowing for sure you are getting to 400° the PC isn't fully curing. It starts melting way below 400° and you could be sitting at 325° and not know it

    I got a cheapy oven thermometer at wally-world for less than $5--taught me quickly how much mine was off and it was way off from the dial reading.

    I now have a PID arrangement and it hold temp to 1° of the 400°.

    not saying you need the PID, just that you need to make sure of your temp
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  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    ^ + 1 . . . Walt's right...my cheapo Chinese convection oven was off 50~75*F. I don't have a PID for the oven yet...but I got this...

    Attachment 208309

    Watch dem temps!
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by zubrato View Post
    Hi Everyone.

    New to powdercoating, so I'll do my best to describe the issue I'm having.

    It's not residue, or fouling. After running a dry patch through the bore, it's mirror shiny. However, from the side I notice the bore is discolored. I noticed it's the same color as the smoke fouling on the muzzle of the gun after firing. It looks perfectly clean unless you look at it from the side, but there's no visible deposit anywhere..

    I can't get this stuff off, tried Ed's Red, chore boy, and even Hoppes 9 with copper fouling remover. Scrubbed at it for a while too with no luck.

    I'm using HF red, letting it coat in a dry tumbler, baking at 20 minutes at 400 (havent measured to confirm, but I see the powdercoating melting, and all rounds have passed the smash test easily) and dumping into cold water to regain some hardness.
    Because I wasn't sure, I gave them a second bake, for another 20 minutes, at 420 this time, so I was confident the powdercoating was correctly baked on.

    Load is 3.4gr Titegroup with a no lube groove 142gr boolit.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_8693.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	31.4 KB 
ID:	208245Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_8694.jpg 
Views:	65 
Size:	25.0 KB 
ID:	208246
    My best guess is the TG burns too hot, and hot gas deposits some of the powdercoating onto the barrel? It's consistent, super thin, resistant to solvents, and doesn't follow the rifling.

    Suggestions?
    Had similar problem, j-b bore cleaner will take it out, may take a little work but it will take it out. I now use BoreTEch carbon remover and eliminator. It is the only thing I have found that will touch it. Most of the PC's are polyester. It requires a cross linker to cure when melted and held at 400degree F. The cross linker is normally Triglycidyl Isocyanurate which has a melting temp of 95-98 degree C Most of the color components has a melting temp of 1580 -1840 degree c. Often there is a slight excess of cross linker to insure the complete PC setup. I would guess this may be the problem area. I do not have any way to test but I did look at a number of PC paints as to chemical makeup and max % by weight of components. I figured the ones with the lowest amount of polyester and cross linker compared to color components and the one with the lowest amount of cross linker should leave the least amount in barrel. Since I started using Smokes "Bacon Grease" that has not been a problem even at higher velocities. Some don't think much of color but it really works, look similar to some of desert camo to me.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I use the HF red for HV rifle and pistol, that discoloring is not a problem. Hardly ever even clean the guns. It appears that LLA/waxed boolits clean it real well. BLL works good as a cleaner also, had some 40s HITek coated that just didn't look right. Single coat of BLL and shot some. Clean shiny non-discolored barrel. Same with the 30/30 after PC'd shot. PC will NOT remove any leading from barrel but minor leading & PC - accuracy is still good. Muzzle doesn't get a 'lube' star, just a PC 'star'.
    Conclusion - don't sweat it, just shoot it.
    Whatever!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Try cleaning or soaking your barrel in Acetone

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    try shooting jackets through it
    may clean it out
    Any leading I've ever experienced was actually solved with a gas check...

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check