Taming Recoil in a Mossberg 500 TActical Shotgun

[W.R.Buchanan]

If any of you were paying attention you heard that my M500 beat the snot out of me at Front Sight last week.

Pretty serious about correcting this problem, and so far tried various light loads and Recoil Pads.

Neither had any significant effect.

The Federal Low Recoil Slugs had slightly less recoil than regular Winchester #8 Birdshot, as did the Federal Low Recoil Buckshot. Obviously lighter loads are not the answer.

I ended the class with a Limbsaver Slip on Recoil Pad over the Magpul Pad on the stock. didn't make any noticeable difference.

I looked around and remembered Hans Vang who used to be closer to me in Santa Barbara until he moved to AZ a few years ago. His process includes reaming the forcing cone from 1/2" long at 3 degrees to nearly 3" long at a much lower angle, as well as numerous holes (31ea.) drilled on either side of the front sight, (62 total) for porting similar to Magnaporting. I can do the porting on the mill easily, but will probably just let them do it when they ream the forcing cone.

Apparently the vast majority of the Recoil Reduction is in the forcing cone which is pretty abrupt from the factory, and after having a look at my Browning Citori Trap gun which has the same type of Forcing cone and porting and is a joy to shoot, it became obvious that was what is needed to fix this gun.

Anyway more to come on this project.

Randy

[Ginsing]

Have you tried a more traditional stock design?
Does the gun fit you properly?
Adding weight will help as well

[edp2k]

Knoxx (blackhawk) makes several flavors of butt stocks which reduce recoil by having something built in
similar to an automotive shock absorber.
Under recoil the butt stock actually telescopes in/collapses somewhat and compresses a coil spring,
which of course recovers in a fraction of a second, distributing the force over a large fraction of a second
vs. the milliseconds of a solid butt stock.

the have several versions, one of which looks like a traditional shotgun butt stock
and other one or more which have pistol grips and optionally a folding wire type stock.
I believe that they are called the knoxx (blackhawk) comp stock.

here is a cutaway pic.
midway and other outlets sell them.

reviews say they work, although the different recoil impulse may take some getting used to.

http://www.gunmart.net/shooting-acce...educing-stocks

$82
https://www.lapolicegear.com/blkncoshst.html
http://jumpthestack.blogspot.com/200...-mossberg.html

[Greg S]

Get the barrel backbored by someone. Next item I would look into is how much room you have in that space age stock. I would first add some birdshot in the stock until you get an even balance point in the center between both your hands. If it is in the 10-14 oz area, look at adding a mercury recoil reducer instead of the lead shot. If I recall correctly, I'm running a 14 oz recoil reducer and 2-3 oz of #9 shot in epoxy on my skeet gun with tubes to get it to balance. More weight will change the perceived recoil.

If those two tweeks and the porting don't tame the mule, see if you can try someones Benelli M3. I shot 5 boxes of Rem express slugs and 3 boxes of 00 through one. It was like shooting an auto with dove loads.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The Vang mod is backboring. It changes the forcing cone from an abrupt step to a long taper, they also port the barrel which will help as ell..

I first thought of more weight but there isn't any room inside the Magpul Stock it is nearly solid.
The Mossberg stock the gun came with will swallow nearly 3 lbs of shot. (Tried it yesterday.)

The Space Age Magpul Stock is staying on as it solves several other problems these guns have with ergonomics. The grip portion of the stock allows you to pull the gun into you easier than a conventional stock, also it has adjustable LOP.

I have a Mercury Recoil Reducer in my Marlin 1895 .45-70 and it works a little. It is really nothing to write home about as the effects are minimal. I thought I got more out of the 15 oz of additional weight than the Mercury.

The Blackhawk stock is interesting and isn't too expensive. There is one called a Gra-coil and is used by some Recoil Sensitive Trap Shooters but I have never needed one with my trap gun. They are not cheap.

I will figure this thing out. Thanks for the ideas.

Randy

[mcdaniel.mac]

There's a removable mod for 500s (I believe called the OpSol Mini clip, but I could be misremembering) that allows you to cycle 2" and 2&1/4" shells reliably. Centurion makes the shells, or you could roll your own. I haven't loaded enough shotgun shells to know if you could down-load them effectively yourself. I find the various low-recoil buckshot options to be more than adequate, but I don't shoot more than a couple boxes in a day, max.

[725]

The knoxx stock is very forgiving in terms of recoil. Added weight applies basic physics principles. Mercury recoil or spring mounted recoil dampeners work. Some of those are fitted in the rear stock - some in the magazine tube. I have hunted with the reduced recoil slugs and still got pass through performance which dropped the deer within yards of the shot. Also, I have found the reduced recoil slugs to be more accurate than the shoulder rocking type. Good luck.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't understand, if the reduced recoil loads didn't solve your problem, a long forcing cone wont either. Are you saying the gun kicks up rather than back into your shoulder?

[SteveD]

I don't know what they teach at Front Sight, but look up a class by Rob Haught. He teaches a method that works, regardless of equipment.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This gun was brutal with normal #8 birdshot which are the lightest loads on the market. I reload Shotshells and my normal trap loads still smack me pretty hard in this gun.

The forcing cone on this gun is about 1/2" long it is an abrupt step in the barrel in front of the chamber. Back boring opens this up to a 3" Gradual Transition which smooths out the recoil impulse over a longer period of time.

The gun kicks both up and back. The porting will stop the up part. The back boring will reduce the back part.

I can't really see any reason for full house slugs. There is nothing that will live thru a low recoil 1 oz slug at 1300 fps. That is a .45-70 with a larger frontal area.

For the purposes of this gun low recoil slugs and Buckshot will be the norm. I will load them myself to make sure they are as light as they can be.

For 3 gun shooting you don't need anything stronger than enough to break clay targets at 10-15 yards which doesn't take much. Anymore is just a waste.

You could shoot a 1 oz ball at steel targets with a slingshot and score points. Nobody is looking at the force of the hit on steel

Randy

[Lagamor]

Really interested in hearing how the back boring will affect recoil. I know the porting will make it much louder, but I'm not sure if it will affect perceived recoil. I'm not knowledgeable enough to Know for sure, but it seems to me that the payload has moved almost the entire length of the barrel, so it doesn't make sense to me that it would reduce recoil much. But what do I know, I'm just a dumb hick.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't think a lengthened forcing cone will affect the recoil too much. The porting will reduce muzzle rise, meaning it wont slap you in the face as much. I really don't see how this thing could kick that bad. This gun should be in the ballpark of 7 pounds. I've shot plenty of single shot guns that are 5-6 pounds, and a target load is still pleasant to shoot. I have a mossberg 500 with a 18.5" barrel, and standard hogue stock. Even 1 1/4 oz field loads are not what I would call brutal. I don't shoot 3 gun (or any competition), but after a couple rounds of trap with said field loads, I feel just fine. I'd swap out that magpul before anything. The standard stock fits me just fine, and I'm not sure what you mean by pulling the gun into you. I'd hazard a guess you shoot in a more "combative" style, while I am entirely a wingshooter.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Back boring and lengthening the cone will only reduce recoil by reducing velocity - Newton's second law cannot be circumvented.

Often when a shotgun "smacks" you, the stock is too short and have too much drop, causing the gun to jump upwards, and banging the back of one's thump against one's nose and upper lip - this gets tedious really fast!

I notice the gun has slug sights. If the sights are too low, and you must force your cheek into the stock to get the correct sight picture, the gun will hurt you! That's why an aimed shot often seems to kick harder than a snapshot at a fast flying duck; when aiming a shotgun most people will try to look straight along the rib instead of looking slightly above it as when wingshooting.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mega: the difference in shooting is the number of shots fired in a short amount of time.

In Trap you are on the line with 4 others and each shoots his target in a round robin type order, one shot about every 2-3 minutes.

In a tactical class or 3 gun shoot you are shooting 25-30 rounds as fast as you can run the gun. Then you won't shoot again for a while.

The target I put up on the other thread had three shots in the head at 50 yards in 10 seconds off hand. Obviously mounting the gun the same way everytime is critical to recoil control, but when shooting multiple rounds in short order that gets overlooked more and more as the string progresses.

If I was only shooting this gun once or twice and then resting it would be a different story. On the first iteration of this class I shot a whole box in less than 10 minutes. That's what I am up against.

Randy

[rking22]

Biggest contributor to recoil difficulties is gun fit, you may like that stock but it doesn't fit you like it should. Thats assuming a typical weight shotgun. Now I'm a wing shooter but also compete and coach. When we run clinics a box in 10 minutes is off pace and we will run 10 to 15 boxes in a short day and 25 is not unknow. If the gun fits the shooter there is no issue and these are 7.5 lb 12 ga over unders. Note we also do not teach pulling the gun into the shoulder, rather the shoulder to the gun held firmly balanced in both hands. This lets the muscles handle recoil not the bones and tendons. Most targets are fast true pairs, so control and fluid motion is a must. Just my experience, but I would try a factory 870 or gas auto, I never shot a Mossberg that didn't kick harder than it should!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's and article that explains the barrels mods and shows what they do.

https://rifleshooter.com/2012/07/tac...e-performance/

Randy

[Hogtamer]

Is a 20 ga out of the question?

[Ginsing]

To tell you the truth I havnt noticed any difference in recoil between my back bored winchester and my other shotguns of similar weight. If there is any reduction it isn't enough to notice. I havnt noticed any increase in performance with it either. Though I don't spend much time patterning birdshot. I did notice it gives slightly more uniform patterns with buckshot but only buck loaded without a shotcup. 9 pellet 00 buck loaded in stacks of 3 was more uniform with less pellets clustering in groups.
I'm not sure if it really will give you the recoil reduction you are looking for.
Might I suggest you trade for a different shotgun before spending extra money on something that may have a negligible difference in recoil.

[edp2k]

Myself I stay far, far away from porting in rifles, pistols, and shotguns.

It definitely makes the gun louder and increases the concussion your body and head are exposed to.
After a few shots I find that I have a headache growing, which decreases my fun factor and shooting performance.

Ports spit out particles and very high pressure gas.
In the event you are not wearing shooting glasses (or even if you are)
the particles from the ports or particles blasted off a close tree/bush in the field or plywood/2x4 in a competition stage
can get in your eyes and around your glasses (either directly or by ricochet) and blind you or at least disturb your vision
and your performance.

Even particles impacting on my face/head/neck would cause me to lose focus on the next shot or several.
That could mean life or death or at least missed game or a lower score.

A body part exposed to the ports while firing is going to cause huge trouble.
If the gun is being used for defensive purposes you never know what kind of wrestling you will have to do
or what position you are in when the gun goes off.

All this and my experience has shown that it doesn't really mitigate the recoil impulse much.
The added concussion may actually increase the perceived recoil.

Of course you can make your own decision on porting, however mine was definitely made long ago,
and its downside does not outweigh any possible upside for me.

[edp2k]

http://www.kick-killer-recoil-pads.com/
$35 lace up or velcro

HP White test results
http://www.akton.com/documents/HP_Wh...rbing_Test.pdf