.375 H&H - Choices, choices... decisions, decisions

[Newtire]

Don,
We still have that double barrelled gun that Kathy's grandpa had that he left to us. It's in .375 Holland and Holland. Sounds like H & H to me? Kathy said to give it to you if you want it. It only has 2-shots and no scope but a whole gang of sights on the rear. If you can put in that ceiling fan, it's a deal.

[lucifers]

Heck, I'll give you $500 for it !

[BigEyeBob]

If you can find a Whitworth Express Mark 10 Mauser those were really really nice rifles.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Have to agree with you ,I bought one new in the 80's ,had a kahles 2.5 x 7 scope mounted on it in EAW tip off claw mounts .Took 30 odd asian water buff with it .Those winchester silver tips 300gn factory rounds were great . Reloaded using Hornady 300gn rnsp after the silver tips were unobtainium .I lent the rifle to a friend who took it to Africa ,he took Cape Buffalo , Eland ,Kudu And other game with it .When he returned he didnt want to give the rifle back to me ,I insisted . He pestered and hounded me for at least 8years to get me to sell him the rifle. Well times got hard for a while and I relented .Rifle sold ,heavy heart .He went to live in Canada for a short while , took black bear and moose ,had a grizzly tag but didnt fill it .He got really sick and returned to Australia and left the rifle behind ,with a friend .He has plans to go back and get a grizzly and then bring the rifle back .I really regret selling that rifle , and often I think about it .Life dishes up some bad situations at times but one has to take the good with the bad .

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you are contemplating converting a P 14 or P 17, you should invest in some classic gunsmithing books from 1945-1960 to see what a massive project that is. After tons of work you will still end up with a big heavy rifle with no resale value.

There is a lot of truth there. The best I know for this purpose is Harold E. Macfarland's "Introduction to Modern Gunsmithing" of 1965 ues the M1917 at length as an example of the sporterising process. The reason, I'm afraid, is that just about everything that might be needed in a rifle, is needed, and he gives good guidance on picking out the best. It is pretty common on www.bookfinder.com and eBay, expecially if you do your search as Macfarland and Gunsmithing, without initials. You'll find ridiculously overpriced examples, but some are cheap.aw

One point Macfarland mentions is that he considers it unwise to rechamber the military barrel (a very well-shaped one for a .30-06 sporter) for a magnum-diameter case. They are good barrels for their intended purpose, proved before issue, and you would be lucky to find one that hasn't done a good deal of shooting. But concealed flaws, exposed by chamber enlargement, aren't impossible.

The M1917 and P14 are sound actions, with an excellent striker safety, and aftermarket triggers are available - probably still the Dayton-Traister speedlock cock on opening conversion too. It isn't hugely heavy, but a bad choice for building a light rifle. Sometimes, especially with the largest cartridges to which it can be adapted, we don't want to. As for resale value... we are talking about sporterising old military rifles, in which building in value worth the labour and expenditure it cost is something of a fantasy. I can't think that if well chosen for purpose, it would be worse than most others.

It would be useful to hear from someone who knows for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the P14 bolt could be used in an M1917, letting you out of some tricky bolt face modification for a magnum conversion. I most emphatically wouldn't try interchanging them in an existing rifle without a proper headspace check, but in rebarrelling it should be possible.

With mine I aimed for target-rifle weight with something like sporting-rifle looks, so it got the lightest straight-tapered Shilen barrel and a stock of padauk, bright when new but quickly mellowing to a pleasant chocolate brown. This is a before and after composite, in exactly the same place, and the seasonal change in appearance says something about how long it took.

[lucifers]

Now a nice chat thread. At least something good has come from "the search for the $300 375 H&H".

[obssd1958]

I think I have figured out that the OP doesn't really want to buy anything but enjoys chatting about and shooting down any suggestions.

A nice wood stocked X-Bolt for 830 bucks is a bargain. Buying and converting anything would cost as much, be unreliable and have a terrible resale.

You might find a well used Whitworth or Zasteva for less but both are crude compared to a X-Bolt.

I'll stick with my No. 1 with cast boolits.

I'll try again.
1. A Savage 300 Winmag action will not fit a 375 H&H. It's built for 3.34" OAL cartridges NOT 3.6". By the time you fix everything to end up with a cobbled up, unreliable rifle, you could have bought the Vanguard. Savage did make a 375 H&H rifle, a lot different animal than a 300 winmag. They no longer make it ---- wonder why ?

2. The fellow who bought the CZ years ago pad more than the Vanguard. Given inflation, the CZ's current price of $1000 is less than $700 ten years ago.

3. If you are contemplating converting a P 14 or P 17, you should invest in some classic gunsmithing books from 1945-1960 to see what a massive project that is. After tons of work you will still end up with a big heavy rifle with no resale value.

4. Here's another nice one that may or may not sell for $750. But you should avoid as the extractor will break---laffin http://www.gunbroker.com/item/723574351

Nice chat thread with no outcome.

Now a nice chat thread. At least something good has come from "the search for the $300 375 H&H".

lucifers,
Can you explain why you insist on posting negative comments on this thread? Does it brighten your day?
It is a discussion thread - you can call it "chat" if you like! But that was the whole purpose from the beginning. After all, the title does contain the words "Choices, choices... decisions, decisions", but doesn't say "I'm going to buy this today, and want you to make my decision for me!"
You did have some good comments and links, but I'm pretty sure that I am not the only one who would appreciate it if you left out the snide comments.
Have a nice day!!

Don

[obssd1958]

BiS,
That's a great looking rifle!
One of the reasons that I was looking to explore the possibilities with the P17, was because of the weight and balance. I had a P17 that I bought off of Gunbroker, that had been chambered in .358 Norma Mag. It had also been "fitted" into the most awful thumbhole stock that I've ever seen. It was definitely not professionally done! It shot well, and made do until I was able to get a model 700 with a Douglas barrel in .358 NM - then it went down the road! The finish on the barrel made me think that it wasn't the original military barrel, rebored and rechambered, but there were no makers marks on it either. I'll never know now.
As the discussion here has progressed, I have come to the conclusion that the P17 would be better used as a funding source for the .375 H&H, instead of a build platform.

[lucifers]

obssd or ocd ?

The initial appearance on the thread was that of a person who was looking for help in finding a 375 H&H.

You received lots of advice but kept using cost as a reason to no buy.

Then the cost issue was pretty well put to bed (there are no $300 375 H&Hs made by anyone)

What I view as the truth, you view as negative. IMHO I gave the you more options to buy than anyone as well as pointing out the fallacy of thinking a P14/17 conversion was a cheap deal. (A point you have now embraced)

There is nothing wrong with a "chat" thread, I found BIS's story about his rifle of interest.

IF I posted something that was incorrect or dangerous, I'd be more than happy to be called on it and correct it.

IF you have a minty Rem or WRA P-17--- that sold, will buy you any of the 375s suggested to you.

I feel you are trying to provoke me, so it's time for me to get off this thread.

[obssd1958]

This discussion has put a bit of a burn under my butt, for a CZ550. And I am going to continue to look for one that I can afford.
In the mean time, I found a Savage in 7mm RUM for $355 all in, and a like new 24" .375 H&H barrel, for $125. Just under my self imposed limit of $500!! I really want something nicer, but I'm responsible for putting food on the table, and paying the bills, so I'll make do for now.
After all, it was a want - not a need. Sometimes I hate having to Adult!! (and yes that's a verb!!!!!!)
I'll post pictures on this thread once it gets here, and I get it swapped over.

Thanks again!

Don

[Ballistics in Scotland]

BiS,
That's a great looking rifle!
One of the reasons that I was looking to explore the possibilities with the P17, was because of the weight and balance. I had a P17 that I bought off of Gunbroker, that had been chambered in .358 Norma Mag. It had also been "fitted" into the most awful thumbhole stock that I've ever seen. It was definitely not professionally done! It shot well, and made do until I was able to get a model 700 with a Douglas barrel in .358 NM - then it went down the road! The finish on the barrel made me think that it wasn't the original military barrel, rebored and rechambered, but there were no makers marks on it either. I'll never know now.
As the discussion here has progressed, I have come to the conclusion that the P17 would be better used as a funding source for the .375 H&H, instead of a build platform.

Thank you for that kind remark, but my rifle was a good example of how apparently small things affect other things. I silver soldered my magazine from bronze sheet (like the grip cap, which hasn't yet mellowed to a rather pleasing patina, nicer than brass). But I made the non-opening bottom plate wider than it needed to be, and inletted it into the largely uncarved stock before I realised that that would require the stock to be a shade flatter-sided than I would have liked it.

I don't really see the point of a thumbhole stock on a bolt-action rifle. It slows the manipulation of bolt and safety. There may be more point on a semi-automatic - or even a slide-action, although I have never heard of it being done, and quite possibly it never has been.

I see Brownells still have the Dayton-Traister trigger and speedlock kit at $64.99, with the two parts also available separately. But the one for a magazine reduced to five shots is back-order, with only the one for the unaltered six-shot (five in .303) in stock. Actually I did use that one, and cut and welded the trigger. Nobody ever broke a good weld that size with one finger. Unlike some it doesn't have an adjustment to take up pre-release, but mine was pretty good as it came. It is all-steel, and on a rifle of this kind I have always felt, like Gilbert and Sullivan, that "True love must be without alloy".

[lucifers]

Does your RUM have a fixed or detach mag ?

RUM shoulder .525, 375 .448.

375s may not stay in RUM magazine.

Could be interesting when Buff is in full bore charge, you open the bolt and discover you have a "self-emptying" magazine.

375 RUM would make more sense.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm seriously thinking about getting a Weatherby Vanguard .375. I have no intention of ever touching off a factory round in it, the plan would be to create .375 WCF level loads for it. Something like a Lee 379-250-RF at 1800-2000 fps. Does this sound doable? Does the .375 H&H work well with reduced loads?

[gunlover]

I'm seriously thinking about getting a Weatherby Vanguard .375. I have no intention of ever touching off a factory round in it, the plan would be to create .375 WCF level loads for it. Something like a Lee 379-250-RF at 1800-2000 fps. Does this sound doable? Does the .375 H&H work well with reduced loads?

Your idea works very well with the 375 H&H. Had a friend do it using the same cast bullet he uses in his 375 Win leveraction and even got himself a deer with it. As I remember his shot cast very accurate.

[FergusonTO35]

Great! I'll have to start a special envelope for it. $600.00 for a quality rifle in .375 is an awesome deal.

[obssd1958]

I've had 2 rifles chambered in .375 H&H and have shot reduced cast boolit loads in both. It makes the cartridge a joy to shoot!
That would be the reason that I was looking to get another, after having to sell each of the previous rifles to pay bills. For me, the RCBS 250gr. FN GC, worked really well!

Don

[FergusonTO35]

I like big bores but don't like lots of recoil. My gun collection would be a lot smaller if I didn't cast and reload!

[wl620]

I think the OP and I are in the same boatI would like to have a 375 but dont want to lay out a lot of money for one, I too have a sporterized 1917 but instead of making it a375 h&h I have been giving serious though to sending it to JES to rebore to 375-06 improved. I mainly want a cast boolit shooter any way so the velocity I'll lose wouldnt matter anyway, from some of the data Ive seen posted on the internet its not too far behind the H&H anyway,It has a longer neck wich I personally like better especially for cast boolits,and I have a bunch of 06 brass so one less thing I have to buy
My only hold-up with this project has been finding the dies to load for it, I havent looked too hard but what I have found is redding makes a nice set but they want 200$ for them!
I know its not a 375H&H but it would be a good alternative to use what you have and even if you bought the expensive dies you would still be under the 500$ mark.
I'm gonna think on it for awhile longer before I do it.

[azrednek]

A few years ago an acquaintance bought a sported US Enfield that had been converted to 308 Norma. If I remember right he only paid $125 for it. Later he had it re-barreled to 375 Ruger. I never saw the finished project but he claimed all it needed was the 375 Ruger barrel. No modifications to the mag or bolt face. He did say he was saving his nickels and dimes to dump the cut military stock and get a decent stock on it. Asked how he liked shooting it and he almost sounded regretful saying something about the punishing recoil sighting it in. I imagine that steel buttplate could really hurt after a few shots.

[missionary5155]

I've got any 1885 Winchester (Moroku) that I just love. I've also worked up a nice cast boolit load that's accurate and don't rattle my filings loose. I paid about half what one usually cost because it is a .375 H&H, Go figure.

Good morning Another with the 1885 375 HH. CDNN still has them for under $1k . Hunt about and you can find them at bargain price as when we bought ours. That long 28" barrel will let you get all the value from a case load of 860 surplus and other powders. Ours also shoots .378 FNGC (ours) at 38-55 to 2350 fps with no issues and simple to make loads. This time north going to PP for this rifle and head out into the higher ballistic arches.
We also have a CZ which was purchased used for under $500. Look around...
Then there is a Ruger #1 recently purchased for under $750 delivered....
Mike in Peru

[obssd1958]

Well, I have my Gunbroker purchased Savage 111, in 7mm RUM, in hand now. Nice rifle, and once I picked it up, I believe that I found the reason it was for sale! It weighs just over 7 pounds, and I would surmise that at that weight, the recoil would be none too pleasant...
It looks way to good to just pull the barrel off, before I get a chance to give it a shakedown cruise. So I will try it out in it's current configuration, as soon as I get some ammo put together.
In the meantime, a little comparison:
The .375 H&H barrel is .700 at the muzzle and 24" long, and the 7mm Rum is .620 at the muzzle and 26" long.
I'm not sure what the weight differences will be, but based on my other barrels, I would suspect it will be less than 1/2 pound (the .375 barrel weighs right at 3 pounds).
I did get a chance to run a few of the .375 rounds through the magazine on the new rifle - no problems, smooth as you could ask for!

More updates as things progress!!