How to cure plated bullet woes in semi-autos (video link)

[Hrfunk]

Hi All! I recently received an invite to join up here from one of the other members. Since I just finished a video that I thought some folks here might find helpful, I decided to go ahead and take the plunge and post up the video. Please feel free to let me know what you think of the video as well as the content. I'm always trying to improve. In any case,if youre havind the odd, occasional, malfunction with plated bullets in your semi-auto pistol, the video will demonstrate how I cured that problem. Enjoy!

HRF

https://youtu.be/kfGihVSDPxc

[bedbugbilly]

I use the Lee FCD and like 'em. One thing you don't mention - and I may have missed it - are you using all the same head stamp brass? You put the possible blame on to plating thickness but if you are using mixdd head stamps, you are probably going to experience differences in the wall thickness of the case as not all brands are created equal. I know some are fanatic about using all the same head stamp - I primarily use range brass of all different head stamps and the FCD takes care of the issue of varying wall thickness / boolit relationship.

Welcome to the forum! Enjoyed your video!

[Hrfunk]

Thank you! The headstamps are mixed, but the load is fairly mild so I'm not too worried. Oddly, I only seem to have this issue withe the 40 S&W. My 45's, 9mm's, and 10mm's run just fine. Mixed headstamps and all!

HRF

[country gent]

How heavy a crimp had you put on the original ammo? Sometimes crimping ( either borderline heavy or due to case length variations) can put a small bulge jut under the crimp that causes a issue. The Lee factory crimp die irons this out. A test if it was the bullets would be to lube some with lanolin and run thru a push thru sizer to size them all the same. A .401 sizer for 40 cal would tell a lot there. Also a good set of mikes would show variations in the bullets dia.

[Hrfunk]

I’ve seen that issue with a heavy roll crimp, but I don’t think I’ve ever noticed it with a taper crimp. I would say I applied a firm taper crimp with my original Hornady dies. Even so, I continued to have the functioning issue in my pistols until I finally started to use the Lee FCD.

Thanks!
HRF

[OS OK]

Tack driving Marines'! No wonder every army in the world fears the USMC! Excellent video & welcome to CastBoolits.Gunloads.com...
If we succeed here, we'll have you casting & PC'ing your own, with casts the Lee FCD is not generally recommended unless you size to bore and shoot a softer Pb that will obturate and seal the chamber . . . c h a r l i e

PS...Careful with those videos...Hollywierd is going to see that pretty face of yours and want you to host some kind of gun show! . . .

Semper Fi

[mold maker]

I've had the same problem with plated (don't remember the brand) but a pass of the bullet through a sizing die before loading solved the problem. I guess all things aren't created equal.

[mdi]

Just a couple thoughts; if there is a variation in plating thickness, did you measure the bullets? (Any time there is a fit problem, measure!). Where were the stoppages? On the feed ramp? In the chamber, part way? Deep into the chamber, but not enough to allow the bolt go into battery? Were the offending rounds taper crimped and "Plunk tested"? I have found that proper die adjustment will be sufficient and in 22 years of reloading semi-auto handguns I have never needed to post crimp size any (about 1,000 each plated in 45 ACP and 9mm and several thousand jacketed and cast in each caliber)...

Good video but in my opinion no normal trouble shooting was done prior to "fixing" the problem. Step by step troubleshooting, measuring and checking would have eliminated the problem rather than just covering it up with an FCD...

[runfiverun]

when I dealt with plated I wouldn't buy anything except double strike.
this meant they sized them after plating.

[Hrfunk]



PS...Careful with those videos...Hollywierd is going to see that pretty face of yours and want you to host some kind of gun show! . . .

Semper Fi[/QUOTE]

If Holywood ever gets that desperate, I feel sorry for all the TV fans out there!

[David2011]

HrFunk, kudos for the high quality video. I share the concerns of others that too little (no) troubleshooting was presented. Where are the oversized rounds sticking in the chamber/bore? Is the mouth OD right after the initial crimp? Are the bullets oversized? I measure the crimp by the OD Of the mouth on .40 S&W using a conventional taper crimp die. Again, the video is of great quality but going straight from the problem to the FCD is kind of jumping straight to the last resort solution first. Since most of your loads do chamber you probably don’t need such a drastic solution. You have to be close or most of the rounds wouldn’t chamber.

David

[Hrfunk]

Hi all! Sorry it took me so long to get back to everyone, but my time is extremely limited. That’s one of the biggest reasons I didn’t care to spend a whole lot of the time I don’t have trying to chase down every conceivable dimensional/adjustment issue that could potentially have caused the cycling problems I was experiencing. For me, the investment in a die that cost less than $20, and the addition of one step that takes less than 5 seconds per cartridge was a better solution. To answer a couple of questions. The stoppages would occur when the cartridge was 1/3 to 1/2 way into the chamber. The stoppage was slight enough that when it occurred, the “tap” part of the “tap-rack-and bang” drill would usually jar the cartridge into proper position and allow the slide to go forward into battery (if you watch the video clip of the malfunction closely, you can see that in action). Also, as noted in the video, this issue only occurred with plated bullets (multiple brands). It did not happen with conventional jacketed bullets loaded with the same equipment. So I really don't suspect a problem related to my dies. Potentially, some adjustment of the dies might have mitigated the problem, but I also might have had to change them back when I loaded conventional bullets. That sounds like an annoyance to me. As an FYI, I’ve been handloading my own ammunition since the late 1980’s and I load a couple of dozen different cartridges for both rifles and pistols. Of those, the only cartridge with which I have experienced this issue is the .40 S&W when using plated bullets. I believe it is probably related to the fact that the .40 is a fairly “stubby” cartridge in terms of overall length compared to case/bullet diameter. With my match rifle ammo, I am extremely meticulous. On the other hand, when it comes to inexpensive pistol ammo for practice, I would rather solve the problem quickly, and spend my time shooting. I see that as solving the problem, not covering it up. Thanks again for all the comments and the warm welcome! I look forward to more great discussions in the future. There may even be the occasional video popping up here from time to time (out of my 200+ videos on YouTube, probably half a dozen or so involve handloading on some level, and many more feature the use of my handloads). Thanks again!

HRF

[mdi]

Proper die adjustments will remedy 95% of the problems "fixed" by an FCD. When using a "shotgun" approach to a problem anyone can get lucky once in awhile. My Daddy said "Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in awhile"...

Good quality video though...

EDIT.

I don't want to sound too critical as the video shows good quality and thought. It is clearly representing the maker's thoughts/ideas and may be helpful to some. I just believe in a step by step troubleshooting system (as a machinist/mechanic/auto electrician I've found jumping around with tests and "fixes" very often leads to confusion and a bunch of WAGes). Systematic testing/inspection is essential at determining which way to pursue a resolution, rather than just jumping to a "fix"... IMO...

[David2011]

Really, a simple measurement check might save you the time of using the FCD which many here consider a band-aid rather than a fix because it can swage bullets undersized. If your mouth/neck OD is larger than .423” then that is the problem. Since the case is tapered a correct mouth diameter pretty well guarantees that the rest of the case is the correct size. My experience with .40 is 90k rounds loaded and fired over the past 10 years in USPSA competition and practice.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The problem was a bulge at the bottom of the case. We have discussed this here numerous times. Pushing the cases all the way thru the FCD using a Bulge Buster Kit would have solved the problem before it came up.

This is a "Case Prep" operation and I do it to all .40 S&W cases prior to tumbling. Then you load them as normal. The cases should measure .422-423 all the way to the rim after being pushed thru the FCD die with the crimp ring removed from the die. Factory unfired rounds will measure .420-421. The bulge on a case fired from a Glock or M&P with be up around .432-.435 depending on the chamber.

The plating thickness on the boolits had nothing to do with this, the stoppages were caused by a bulge further down the case. Thus the cartridges wouldn't chamber all the way. They would start but get hung up (per the OP)

Another tidbit. The measurement at the case mouth after crimping should be .417-.418.

Welcome to Castboolits HR !!! We like Marines.

Randy

[Hrfunk]

Thank you, Randy! Why do you suppose the same issue does not exist when I shoot conventional bullets?

HRF

[W.R.Buchanan]

Don't know without looking at boolits and loaded rounds. But I can pretty much guarantee that if the Crimp was the correct dimension the thickness of the plating wouldn't have anything to do with it because the crimp dimension is not contingent on plating thickness, it is only contingent on Die Adjustment. As long as the crimp is the right size and there is no bulge at the bottom of the case the round should feed.

The Lee FCD was created to catch rounds that had been distorted during loading or cases that had bulges that the F/L didn't get to.

If a bullet goes into the cases a little cockeyed it will distort the case enough to where it wouldn't feed, the FCD was designed to "Iron Out" any of that as a last check.

By running the case thru the FCD die body without the crimp ring "Before you Load it" you have basically eliminated any bulged cases before you even load them.

You will still Taper Crimp with the FCD, with the crimp ring back in the die, after bullet seating, which will catch any problems that were generated during the Flaring or Seating Operations. (Like bullets going in cockeyed.)

Where this issue all started was with First Gen Glocks. They had a rather large feed ramp which intersected the chamber in such a way as to cause a large unsupported area at the base of the case. Adding to this was the case design which didn't have the web of the case extending as far above the extractor groove as later brass now has standard. This extra reinforcing of that area has pretty much taken care of the dreaded Glock Kaboom.

The cases that were responsible for a lot of this were Federal Cases marked "FC" and "FC10" and if not debulged before reloading had not only a weak spot near the base, but that section was already compromised from the previous firing. If the compromised area of the case lined up with the unsupported area of the chamber the case would give up and Kaboom she would go! It was kind of like a Russian Roulette sort of thing, since everyone is so concerned with the Russians nowadays.

We are talking about a 35,000 psi cartridge like the 9MM case but with more internal surface area, and the same wall thickness, so the odds of failure are greater.

Of all Pistol rounds the .40 S&W is the most critical to reload. Perfectly safe as long as you get everything right and don't push the envelope with hot loads. Really nothing meaningful to be gained by pushing it anyway, as there is plenty of good safe SD ammo available if you actually need the extra performance, so there is no need to reload that type of ammo. This reloaded .40 S&W ammo is generally considered "Practice Ammo."

Luckily most all of this suspect brass had gone to the scrap pile by now. It was first made around 1990 ish.

Later .40 S&W brass has the web of the case extending well above the Extractor Groove so even if fired in an early chamber the brass is strong enough to not blow out. People with First or Second Gen Glock 22,23, 35's should really just buy a new barrel and then this problem goes completely away.

Here's a pic of a blown case that I found in one of my brass sweeps at a local Range about 2004. This one probably only blew the magazine out of the gun. I believe it came from a Law Enforcement gun as they had used the range the day before.

Hope this helps with the understanding of this round.

Randy