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Thread: Lets try this again, brisk .32 acp loads for 90-95 g cast bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Lets try this again, brisk .32 acp loads for 90-95 g cast bullets

    I am thoroughly chastised. I would like a brisk load for the 90-95 grain bullet. Thanking you in advance.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    "Brisk Load" for 90-95-grainer I can do:

    In my M1903 Colt, Beretta 1935 and Walther PP I replaced the original recoil springs with replacements intended for the .380 ACP to reduce punishment to the guns when firing heavy loads.

    Suitable, sturdy .32 ACP pistols able to safely handle a steady diet of the heavy-bullet loads are the Beretta M81, M70, M1935, Colt M1903, Walther PP, Mauser HSc, CZ27, and CZ50. My advice is to severely limit loads producing over 130 ft.-lbs. to only occasional/emergency use in micro pistols like the Beretta Tomcat or Keltec for two reasons:

    1) because they may cause serious “slide bite” if you have meaty hands and don’t use a Hogue Grip Sleeve, as I painfully found out, and

    2) after prolonged firing, [over 1000 rounds] they are “frame crackers.”

    My Beretta Model 3032 INOX Tomcat test platform, digested about 2000 rounds of hot CIP-Euro and heavy cast bullet loads before failing. In the Keltec heavy loads spread the frame rails, release the takedown pin and the pistol self-disassembles.

    If you own a Beretta Tomcat, open the tip-up barrel and inspect the right frame rail above the trigger pivot for cracks. Beretta doesn’t “repair or replace” these any more, nor do they warrant the pistol for use with hand loads or ammunition exceeding 130 ft.-lbs. manufacturer’s rating. If you shoot heavy loads in the Tomcat you will soon turn the pistol into an unrepairable, expensive paper weight.

    I fire the heavy bullet .32 ACP loads in STEEL FRAME, standard sized guns such as the Colt M1903, Walther PP, Beretta M1935, CZ27, etc., replacing recoil springs with the heavier Wolff .380 ACP replacements where available.

    Accurate 31-087T as hollow-pointed by Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com weighs 82-83 grains in 1:30 tin-lead. It exceeds 900 fps from my 1914 Type III Colt’s 3-3/4” barrel with 5.6 grains of #2400 and with 3 grains of Auto Comp approaches 1000 fps from my postwar 3.4” Beretta M1935. I use a 60-degree conical seating plug to prevent cavity collapse during seating and to slightly flare the cavity opening. In 1:30 alloy out of the Tomcat they expand reliably to .50 caliber and penetrate 24 inches of water jugs - much deeper than factory JHPs, if they are fragile enough to expand when fired from a barrel shorter than 3 inches.

    Inspection of ejected cartridge cases showed no bulged heads, flattened or backed out primers, or other evidence of early opening, indicating significant residual chamber pressure. Case heads which swell and fired brass which won't go back into the shell holder to resize, indicate excess pressure in a blowback gun!

    Rim lock can happen in .32 ACP pistols when overall cartridge length is less than about 0.94" because shorter cartridges have room to move longitudinally from their “as-stacked” position in the magazine box under recoil. This causes the semi-rim of the cartridge on top to lodge behind that of the cartridge beneath it, so that the top cartridge cannot be stripped normally from the magazine during the feed cycle.

    The highly touted 75-grain Buffalo Bore FN load is only 0.915” long, to feed in the Seecamp pistol.
    I call it the “Jam-o-matic” due to rim lock issues and consistent failures to feed in WW2-era guns and others with standard-length magazines. In the typical failure-to-feed, the bullet meplat hangs up on the chamber entrance at 12:00. This happened frequently in my Colt M1903, and occasionally in my Walther PP, Beretta M1935, CZ27, and other Pistols designed for Euro hardball ammo of 0.96-0.98" OAL.

    Rim lock is prevented by loading bullets of adequate 0.26" nose length and suitable profile which fits the magazine box, at 0.94” overall cartridge length or greater. This prevents rounds from “shuffling in the stack” during recoil, so that rim lock then cannot occur.

    In personal defense handguns of small caliber, generating less than 200 ft.-lbs. of kinetic energy, reliable function and adequate penetration, not less than 20” of water or 12” of gelatin, are more important than expansion, in my opinion. Experienced users of deep-concealment, hideaway guns agree, based on police and military experience dating all the way back to Fairbairn and Sykes experiences in China before WW2, and continuing through the Cold War era.

    The design objective of Accurate 31-090B by Tom Ellis was a heavier Buffalo Bore Style profile of longer, 0.26” nose length to ensure a minimum 0.94” overall cartridge length in .32 ACP with a meplat of 0.20” (0.64 of bullet diameter) and ogival profile which fits the magazine box interior profile closely to positively prevent any possibility of rim lock.

    The 31-095T has the same nose length with an absolutely huge (for the .32 ACP) .25” meplat (0.80 of bullet diameter), and having a short radius behind the flat to contact the feed ramp for reliable feeding. Its tapered nose fits the CIP throat. This is the heaviest, most blunt bullet possible to load in the .32 ACP and feed reliably in Colt and Beretta pistols. Velocity in .32 ACP with 5.2 grains of Alliant #2400 approximates the .32 S&W Long fired from a revolver of the same barrel length.

    The RCBS Little Dandy measure Rotor #00 meters 1.7 grains of Bullseye which provides a pleasant, mild and reliable practice load in the .32 ACP with 87 through 95-grain cast bullets, approximating .32 S&W Long ballistics from a 4" revolver of the same barrel length. The #00 rotor also meters 2 grains of TiteGroup, which is a full-charge with 77 or 78 grain bullets for safe use in alloy frame guns. The #00 rotor also meters 2.5 grains of AutoComp, a which is a standard-pressure load with 87 to 95-grain bullets giving about 850 fps from a 3.4” pocket pistol.

    Rotor #0 meters 2.2 grains of Bullseye, a factory-equivalent load in .32 ACP with standard weight 71-77 grain bullets. Mine actually averages 2.05 of current Alliant product and 2.1 of older Hercules from the 1970s. Bullseye, like TiteGroup, peaks quickly with small increases in charge weight, so you must be cautious. Using RCBS Rotor #0 with current Alliant Bullseye, the Accurate 31-090B bullet gets 850 fps from my M1903 Colt with 3-3/4” barrel which should not be exceeded.

    Rotor #1, according to the RCBS charge table, meters 2.5 grains of Bullseye. Mine actually averages 2.35 of current Alliant product and 2.4 of older Hercules. This is a full charge load with the 71-grain Magtech, Hornady or Remington FMJ bullets at 0.97” OAL for 968 fps, from a 3.5” barrel, approximating CIP-Euro factory ammunition.

    .32 ACP Hand Loads - Min. OAL 0.945”

    “Group 1” Standard Loads▪ which don’t exceed factory energy, suitable as a "steady diet" for use in light alloy frame pistols:

    Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

    Acc. 31-077B LD#00 2.0 TiteGroup__790, 12 Sd_____________893, 19 Sd
    Acc. 31-077B LD#0 2.2 Bullseye____757, 16 Sd_____________932, 24 Sd
    Acc. 31-077B LD#1 2.5 Bullseye____835, 16 Sd_____________956, 18 Sd
    Acc. 31-077B LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__837, 10 Sd_____________957, 16 Sd

    Acc.31-090B LD#00 2.5 AutoComp__729, 11 Sd____________833, 6 Sd

    Acc. 31-095T LD#00 1.7 Bullseye_____640, 11 Sd___________729, 9 Sd
    Acc. 31-095T LD#00 2.5 AutoComp___741, 25 Sd___________840, 6 Sd
    Acc. 31-095T LD#6 5.2 #2400_______750, 17 Sd___________874, 13 Sd

    “Group 2” +P Loads which exceed “average factory energy” for steel frame pistols with heavy duty replacement recoil springs.

    NR! - Not recommended for Beretta Tomcat or Keltec, frame cracked after use of these loads!!!!

    Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”NR!____Beretta M1935 3.4”
    Accurate 31-077B 5.9 #2400______913 fps, 16 Sd___________1027 fps, 15 Sd
    Acc.31-077B LD#7 5.6 #2400______892, 26 Sd______________998, 22 Sd
    Acc. 31-077B LD#4 3.0 Unique_____965, 26 Sd_____________1067 fps, 19 Sd

    Acc. 31-087T LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__843, 18 Sd___________962, 19 Sd
    Acc. 31-087T LD#7, 5.6 #2400______825,15 Sd____________926, 14 Sd

    Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 2.2 Bullseye____800 fps, 8 Sd_________851, 14 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B 2.3 grains HP38______824 fps, 5 Sd_________839, 16 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B 2.5 grain Unique_____ 815 fps, 23 Sd________901, 33 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B LD#00 2.0 Titegroup__818, 12 Sd____________902, 16 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 3.0 AutoComp+P_915 fps, 16 Sd________999, 14 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B LD#6, 5.2 #2400______821 fps, 23 Sd________878, 20 Sd
    Acc. 31-090V LD#7 5.6 #2400_______n/f________________904, 20 Sd*
    Acc. 31-095T LD#0 3.0 AutoComp___n/f_________________914, 15 Sd

    Hdy 85XTP.312” LD#0 3.0 AutoComp+P__853, 23 Sd_________976, 8 Sd
    Hdy 90XTP.309” LD#0 3.0 AutoComp+P__868, 12 Sd_________968, 17 Sd
    Nor 93FMJ .307” LD#0 3.0 AutoComp+P__856, 6 Sd_________933, 11 Sd

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Outpost75; 11-14-2017 at 06:47 PM.
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  5. #5
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    runfiverun's Avatar
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    well I was gonna say Outpost is the MAN when it comes to 32 cal type stuff.
    but he just proved it so I don't gotta say it.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Those 95 grs that Outpost gave me had power & accuracy way beyond what I had known from a 7.65 PP. And the recoil was there, too. The guy knows lots.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    Those 95 grs that Outpost gave me had power & accuracy way beyond what I had known from a 7.65 PP. And the recoil was there, too. The guy knows lots. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    I had a learned mentor who coached me in assembling ammo he carried into "denied areas" of the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War. I loaded for him 100-grain Winchester lead FN .32-20 slugs in sterile primed cases with no headstamp with Infallible powder... Last four rounds in his mags were steel core Czech Vz61 Scorpion SMG loads because he figured after a while everybody would be behind cover...

    He returned CONUS and lived to tell the tale, and went on another mission from which came the saga of playing whack-a-mole with an M1922 Browning dispatching hypothermic Chinese swimmers boarding the boat with knives in the South China Sea between Kemoy and Matsu...
    The ENEMY is listening.
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    Keep it to yourself.

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    Absolutely fantastic! Just what I need. I am printing this right away for my files. Many, many thanks. Mark

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I have a Beretta 81 and an astra 1916. I am also looking at a FEG. PP clone. Will they hold up?

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdfoxinc View Post
    I have a Beretta 81 and an astra 1916. I am also looking at a FEG. PP clone. Will they hold up?
    Beretta will.
    Manhurin and Walther PP will. Don't know about quality of the metallurgy in the FEG. If STEEL frame, maybe.
    Forget about heavy loads in the Astra...
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you for the answer.

    Are these loads published, or ones you worked up?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdfoxinc View Post
    Thank you for the answer.

    Are these loads published, or ones you worked up?
    These are loads I've worked up, and which have been tested in multiple pistols, by multiple users. Project was published in The Cast Bullet Association's Fouling Shot magazine. Have NOT been pressure tested, but have been highly satisfactory in STEEL FRAME pistols with recoil springs replaced by heavier duty .380 ACP springs in models for which they are available.

    NOT for use in light alloy frames! In the course of testing we destroyed one Beretta Tomcat and a Keltec with frame cracks.

    The 1903 Colts, Walther PPs, CZ27s, Beretta 1935s have digested multiple thousands of rounds with no issues.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  13. #13
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    I had a Colt 1903 that I set up for heavy loads, replacing the recoil spring with a Wolff 1908 380 spring, fashioning a slide buff from a piece of broken toy and loading RCBS 32-84 boolits to 900 + fps. The fly in the ointment for me in heavy boolit loads is that they don't shoot to point of aim very well. I had the same experience when loading 358-242 122 grain boolits in 380 for my PPK--very far off the mark.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Alot may depend upon your grip tension and whether you shoot with one hand or two.

    My 1920 Type II Colt shoots them to point of aim, as do also my Walther PP and Beretta 1935.

    I do grip them as I would a .45 hardball gun and use both hands...
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  15. #15
    PAPERPATCH MASTER


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    Some years back I inherited a WW 2 `trophy` CZ 27 complete with holster and spare clip. I`ve never tried cast thru it just `J` bullets, thanks for a place to start.Robert

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcast416taylor View Post
    Some years back I inherited a WW 2 `trophy` CZ 27 complete with holster and spare clip. I`ve never tried cast thru it just `J` bullets, thanks for a place to start.Robert
    Good bullet for CZ27 is Accurate 31-087T. MOST reliable feeder for guns which don't like JHPs or flatnosed cast. But try a few Hornady 90-grain XTPs in yours and if they feed, the Accurate 31-090B will also.

    The original CZ springs are stiff enough as they come. The pistol is built stout as a little anvil.

    I used one for my initial .32 ACP heavy load development. My reasoning was that if the Czechs loaded 70-grain steel core PS Ball in 7.65mm which gave 1200 fps from the CZ27 and 1400 fps in the Vz61 Scorpion machinepistol, and their ordinary 74-grain ball was the hottest out there, about 1000 fps, that the CZ pistol was engineered from the gitgo for hot loads! Only reason I sold mine was because it was not a natural pointer for me. The Colt with heavy-upp-ed springs was and is accurate.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Outpost75; 11-21-2017 at 03:00 PM.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check