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Thread: Substitute sizing/depriming die for 45ACP?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master




    bruce drake's Avatar
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    Substitute sizing/depriming die for 45ACP?

    So I made the mistake of reloading a bunch of range brass a few months back without tumbling them all first. Wouldn't you know it, I picked up some rocks or something that scored my Redding 45ACP Carbide resizing die as now it looks like the brass has been fired in a HK rifle with vertical scoring along the brass when I use the die to resize my fired brass.

    Now being the frugal Yankee, I had an old Herters .308 Winchester resizing die sitting on a shelf (just that one die no less) for the last decade that I had picked up at one time or an another. So knowing that 45ACP cases can be made out of old .473" diameter cartridges, I oiled up a bunch of fired 45ACP brass and ran them through the 308 Win sizing die. Yep, no scoring. Thankfully, I'm a single stage reloader so no worries about high-volume pistol reloading being compromised by going back to a steel die and lubing the cases before hand.

    Frugal...too a point, I will be looking for a new Redding sizing die body on their website shortly but I did amaze myself at my thinking outside of the box for resizing the fired cases until the replacement die body comes in the mail.
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    How in the world do you manage to score/scratch a carbide die?
    I thought they were too hard for that to happen.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    never hurts to try to polish it out.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    How in the world do you manage to score/scratch a carbide die?
    I thought they were too hard for that to happen.
    I obviously did because after I deprimed like a 1000 cases, it was tossing scratches all over the brass!

    I've dissasembled and cleaned it twice. Our gun club must be sited over a diamond mine or something as that carbide is definitely scratching the brass quite well. The scratches go from the case mouth all the way to the cut for the extractor groove so it tells me the grit is embedded in the carbide ring in the first part of the case.

    New sizing die body is already on its way from Redding.
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  5. #5
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    BPCR Bill's Avatar
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    I believe the 'Carbide" dies only have a carbide sizing ring inside the tool steel body. It's possible to have a scratch inside the die body itself, and not the carbide sizing ring.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    I reconditioned several 357 carbide dies that I did the same thing to. I took a bore mop and mixed a paste of jewelers rouge and solvent and applied it, liberally to the mop. Chucked it in my drill press and polished away. Took a little work but I salvaged the dies. Have also used the same process on regular carbon steel rifle dies. Carbide can be damaged by abrasives and dirt and crud contain all that is needed to mess up almost anything. I sized cases for years and never damaged a die and then all of a sudden over a couple of years I wrecked 3. All my cases go through to clean and wash, tumble cycle now.

  7. #7
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    mdi's Avatar
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    It's possible for a bit of grit to become embedded in the carbide ring. Perhaps you can see it and pick it out? Anyway your solution is pretty good...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce drake View Post
    I obviously did because after I deprimed like a 1000 cases, it was tossing scratches all over the brass!

    I've dissasembled and cleaned it twice. Our gun club must be sited over a diamond mine or something as that carbide is definitely scratching the brass quite well. The scratches go from the case mouth all the way to the cut for the extractor groove so it tells me the grit is embedded in the carbide ring in the first part of the case.

    New sizing die body is already on its way from Redding.
    Not doubting your description. Just surprised it could happen. I will need to make sure I don't do that myself.
    I have done a little inquiry and found that polishing the die out almost always fixes the problem since the polishing compound is softer than the carbide but will still remove the embedded particle that is causing the scratch.
    Good luck with getting your die working again.

  9. #9
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    as soon as I read the header I was going to recommend a 308 die.
    I used a 308 die with an M die to load my 450 mag rounds for quite some time until I realized I had a spare 45 colt die sitting there.

  10. #10
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    I always decap, then clean picked up brass in hot water with a bit of Dawn, shake good, rinse , and dry on an old towel.
    Clean brass ready for size die. I tumble for a polish after sizing (and expanding if needed) Dies are precision tooling and
    deserve proper care.
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  11. #11
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    It's much more likely that brass has stuck to the carbide sizing ring (galling) and the brass is causing the scratches. The die can be saved by polishing with Flitz or J-B Bore Paste on a snug fitting bore mop wrapped in a piece of cloth. Here's a link on how to do it: http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Polish

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  12. #12
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    I had a 45LC FL sizing die that was making a scratch on my cases. I disassembled it and cleaned it really well and no more scratching. I don't think your going to imbed something into the carbide ring.

  13. #13
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    I had a carbide die that started leaving those long scratch marks in the cases. Some grit had become embedded in the carbide ring....how I don't know, carbide is hard...but I polished it with 400 grit wet or dry, with oil , and then some 0000 steel wool and got the grit out and it went back to sizing properly.
    Try and save it before buying another .
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  14. #14
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    I've polished out several with a wooden dowel in an electric drill. Split dowel and wrap crocus cloth around the dowel. The chuck holds it in. The carbide insert will pick up junk after a while and cause scratches. A good polishing, followed by a good cleaning usually restores them to a serviceable condition./beagle
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by beagle View Post
    I've polished out several with a wooden dowel in an electric drill. Split dowel and wrap crocus cloth around the dowel. The chuck holds it in. The carbide insert will pick up junk after a while and cause scratches. A good polishing, followed by a good cleaning usually restores them to a serviceable condition./beagle
    I ran horizontal mills for years and the heads had carbide cutters. Not once did any of these cutters embed any steel. I can hardly believe that the carbide which is harder could get grit embedded in it.

  16. #16
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    Carbide doesn't get "stuff" embedded in it. What usually happens is galling, which simply means brass has stuck to the carbide. Polishing with the method I linked to above in Post #11 will remove anything stuck to the carbide. It takes something diamond hard to scratch carbide, but the molecular makeup of carbide doesn't lend itself to anything getting embedded in it.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReloaderFred View Post
    It's much more likely that brass has stuck to the carbide sizing ring (galling) and the brass is causing the scratches. The die can be saved by polishing with Flitz or J-B Bore Paste on a snug fitting bore mop wrapped in a piece of cloth. Here's a link on how to do it: http://varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Polish

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    My guess also. Its happened to me a couple of times. I just took bore solvent (Shooters Choice) on a cotton swab and soaked the ring good, then took a bronze bore brush in a drill to the area and the built up brass came right off. Second time was the last time. Everything gets a mist of Dillon case lube and it has never done it again. Lots of guys will argue lube is not necessary with carbide but friction is friction and the lever pulls twice as easy with slippery cases.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iowa Fox View Post
    My guess also. Its happened to me a couple of times. I just took bore solvent (Shooters Choice) on a cotton swab and soaked the ring good, then took a bronze bore brush in a drill to the area and the built up brass came right off. Second time was the last time. Everything gets a mist of Dillon case lube and it has never done it again. Lots of guys will argue lube is not necessary with carbide but friction is friction and the lever pulls twice as easy with slippery cases.
    If your cases were clean in the first place there would be no need to remove imbedded particles of grit or dirt. The idea behind carbide is cases don't need to be lubed. That is why some of us purchase them. To each his own but you won't find me lubing pistol brass anytime soon or anytime period. Lubing the cases means I have to remove the lube from the cases before going to the next step in loading which is yet another un-needed step for me.

  19. #19
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    Thats a pretty good idea, using a 308 die to size with. But, I agree with the others about your carbide die. I expect something stuck to the carbide, not imbedded into it. A bore brush or a bore mop coated with polishing compound should clean it up. I've had this happen to some of mine and is why I tumble first.

  20. #20
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    Guys: Silica is harder than Carbide. As far as embedding in the Carbide I doubt that is happening. It could however scratch the Carbide which would leave a mark on the brass or brass could be come embedded in the scratch which would also do it.

    Some Diamond Lapping Compound on a wooden dowel will polish it out in seconds. You could also use a Cratex point on your Dremel Tool.

    Randy
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