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Thread: Strange Modern? Underhammer

  1. #1
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    Strange Modern? Underhammer

    Just came in off the truck. Zero markings other than

    M2
    1977
    1:22
    45 70

    The barrel width is 1 1/8" - Length 30"

    This is an underhammer but more of an inline set up with a scope and modern style walnut stock. Super heavy duty like for competition shooting.

    Any ideas what I got? Any idea on value? The bore is perfect, almost looks unfire with my bore camera. Even the action is extremely clean. The wood has its little bruises but at 13lbs, i think thats understandable lol.
    Last edited by FrontierMuzzleloading; 11-13-2017 at 03:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    dondiego's Avatar
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    It appears to have an H&A style action. These can be bought from Pecatonica with barrels and made into something like this.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Can't read what is on the card. Is that load information?
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    Yes

    Twist 1-22
    Patch .008
    Groove dia .457
    Ball size .437
    Conical .450
    Black Powder 70GR

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Probably someone made themselves a chunk gun. The large and flat fore stock is meant to sit on a log or other similar surface. Since there is 45-70 engraved on it the barrel might be from a conversion. The high cheek piece and rearward mounted scope would make the rifle very easy to shoot.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    it does shoulder beautifully, its right there as soon as you bring the stock up. Good clean trigger pull as well.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    It is fantastically ugly...... I like it!
    "Do not follow where the path might lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. #8
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    a lot of comp guns are ugly lol. Its balance though, mother of god! You can stand up and its so heavy, but its balance is awesome. A very steady rifle.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trails4u View Post
    It is fantastically ugly...... I like it!
    I was thinking the same thing. I'm considering building an underhammer, and now I've got a new 'twist' to think about. Thanks for posting this, very cool.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierMuzzleloading View Post
    Yes

    Twist 1-22
    Patch .008
    Groove dia .457
    Ball size .437
    Conical .450
    Black Powder 70GR

    What is the rifling pattern like, the width of the grooves versus the lands?

  11. #11
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    narrow lands, wide groove.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    GOPHER SLAYER's Avatar
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    I belonged to a large gun club many years ago, many decades really and we could buy those made by H&A for around $60 as I recall. The club was so large that we could buy at the same prices as distributors. It was the Santiago Rifle & Pistol Club in case some of you remember it. I had a .45 & a 38 caliber. The 45 would shoot a very small group if you didn't take any practice shots. After six or seven shots the group size would began to grow. I was late one Saturday for the 100 yard bench rest match but they agreed to wait for me if I just shot for record with no practice shots, so I did and I won the match. After that I didn't take practice shots. I only used the 38 caliber for fifty yard offhand matches. The rifles made by H&A looked nothing like the gun pictured here and I doubt if it did when it left the factory.
    A GUN THAT'S COCKED AND UNLOADED AIN'T GOOD FOR NUTHIN'........... ROOSTER COGBURN

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
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    I like it a lot, where can I get one?

  14. #14
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    I like it a lot, where can I get one?
    Im interested in letting it go.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I don't believe that a 1:22 twist was a standard H & A barrel however - and the H & A under hammers had Numeric barrels - known for their undersize. A year ago I sort of "restored" a H &
    a underhammer - ie. the stock was broken, etc. That one has a 45 caliber barrel but it is undersize and requires a .437 ball which is what the scissor molds that came with them used to drop at for RB. Over the years, I'e owned a number of the H & As and all had Numerich barrels that had tight bores. I also bought one of the H & A copies that Deer Creek used to make but they had Green Mountain barrels on them as far as I know.

    Any markings on the barrel at all? I'm not saying it isn't a H & A barrel but the 1:22 would not have been their "normal" production as far as I know . . . and I've been wrong before.

    An interesting rifle that ought to be fun to see what it will do. A PP conical ought to work well out of it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #17
    Boolit Master kens's Avatar
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    I never understood why the underhammer never caught on. True, it is ugly, but if it works, then it is actually just fine.
    the underhammer with the nipple pointing directly to the powder charge, should be the ignition king of all caplock muzzleloaders.
    it gives a clear & clean view of sights over the barrel.
    the trigger guard is the mainspring, the trigger is the sear, the hammer is the tumbler, how much simpler can it get?

  18. #18
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    very true. Ive seen plenty of the traditional style under hammers but this one just really knocked my socks off. Seems more practical for a target shooter with the scope and comp style stock. I actually had it on the sand bags today at 100 yards. I didnt shoot, just wanted to feel it. Simply amazing how this heavy rifle just holds so solid.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master




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    With that twist it will like slugs better than RBs. Probably made for a mid or LR gun.
    Deer Creek made their own barrels before it was sold. They had 2 rifling machines on site. I have had 2 of their H&A RB guns in 50 cal and they shoot lights out, but they like a lot of powder (100gr 3F). I talked to the old owner and he had 28 employees in the hay day of the 70s and 80s building these and the Mowry rifles.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master kens's Avatar
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    I bet it will shoot a .45ACP bullet terrific. Cast them of pure soft, they will obturate and grab the rifling.
    Try the LEE 452-220-TC.
    I had good luck with that TC bullet out of my round ball barrel, it did grab rifling.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check