home made lead wire

[shotman]

I dont think that is the way lead wire is made. I dont know though. I do know how steel,stainless, and copper wire is made. It is not by pushing through a die. You keep reduceing down to near the size you want and then it is rolled in a set of 4 dies each turned in 1/4 positions. Lead would be much easier to work with because it could be run cold. Alloy wire is very hard and must be run hot and very very fast. I have seen the wire break before it hits the coiler and a 1/2in dia piece of wire will shoot through a 1in steel plate.
If i were going to try the pressing thing. I pour in something that would make it close to the size you want to press to. A good mold could be made out of cement or fire mortor. 2 halfs and rod or pipe to make the chanel. shotman

[Buckshot]

to deltaenterprizes:

what is 3" dom tubing and where can i get some? is this tubing available in 4" size?

....................DOM tubing is: Drawn over Mandrel. It has a hardened mandrel a few thousandths over the ID drawn through it to create a smooth interior. The same thing is sometimes done with carbide, hard chromed, or high carbon steel balls, depending on the makeup of the tube.

AAMOF, some barrel makers did, (or do?) push a hard steel ball through barrels to kind of burnish them.

................Buckshot

[georgeld]

Rick:
Might be you're right about the wrong lube. That's what was handy when I finally got things ready to try.
It's also possible the ingot I used wasn't as soft as pure lead too.
Those soft enough to scratch with a thumbnail I stamp "L", because they're softer. Not necessarily "lead". I do have a bunch of plumbers lead, but, the ingots are 70lbs each. These 1# fit without much effort. I can sure melt one of the big hunks down and intend to.

Once I get the ram out, I'll hunt around for some softer material and better lube. Once it started coming out of the die it was nice and smooth wire. What surprised me as much as anything was getting as long a wire from a one pound ingot and still had a little left over.

There's no pockets in this, just the forcing cone's area. Do you think that should be a solid flat with just the outlet hole? IF so, I've got more pcs cut and can sure drill another one easy enough. I had the notion a tapered hole would make it easier to start the ingot.

I'm just tinkering with this sporatically among a hundred other things between times when I feel good enough to get out there which a lot of times is not too often. I've also got plans to cast about 200lbs of boolits before winter sets in too. Hunting season starts the 4th so I'm getting ready for that now.

[Buckshot]

...........George, I'm sure the smoothness of the extrusion hole helps but I don't know if having it tapered vs parallel sided makes a difference? No idea here, one way or another. I know the hole in the core bleed die shown being used in the photo in my post above isn't tapered.

I think lube is the key. The piston compresses the lead from the bottom, and the lube MUST remain between the compressed lead and the cylinder wall in order to allow the lead in the cylinder to move upward along the walls without sticking.

There may also be some relationship between the bleed hole diameter and the diameter of the cylinder the lead is compressed in. In the core bleed die I'm using the finished core is about .440" od and the bleed hole is about 0.100". The lead extrudes out fairly effortlessly.

.................Buckshot

[deltaenterprizes]

I just finished my second extruding die and it works great with a 20 ton air over hydralic jack in my press. 2 1/2'' by 8'' piece of round bar with a 1.027 hole drilled,bored and reamed. I used a 1'' by 8'' grade 8 bolt for the ram with the head turned within .001'' of bore. Acme thread pitch of 1 1/2-4 for the plug with 9/16'' hole in the plug. I made 3/16'',5/16'' and 3/8'' orifices. Now I need to cast some 1'' by 6'' lead slugs to extrude!

[shooterg]

WE WANT PICS ! And will you be selling any ? Wire or extruders? I'd be interested in the 3/16 for making .224.
I now have the Blackmon dies and Corbin press that you partially financed thanks to your acquisition of the Herter's swaging gear. I probably shoulda kept that core cutter ! Been pouring cores, but for .224, it might be easier to use wire.

[scb]

Luober;
In my copy of NRA Illustrated RELOADING HANDBOOK, circa 1960, on page 127 is a comprehensive three page article on extruding lead wire for swaged bullets.
He, W.T. Collins says he does it with a screw jack and the whole process, including machining cost him $31.80 in the fifties. I would find someone with this book to fill you in on the process.
Life is good

luober
If at all possible you should find a copy of this article. The way the author does this is, at least for me, is counter intuitive, He extrudes thru the "ram/plunger" and explains why this method requires much less force. And what you can do to reduce the force even more. Brute force is not always the best.

[shooterg]

I wish Mr. Collins was around to provide more pics. He makes it sound simple, but I'd sure like more details - especially since I have a 30 ton bottle jack here somewhere ! I couldn't scan 'em w/o cutting the pages out of the book, and I ain't doing that, so the digital pics are it. I think it's all legible. Now somebody make .em and sell 'em to the rest of us. He said he got 20" of .30 wire from a 7/8" x 3 11/16" billet of 12.5 Brinnell hardness. With pure lead it would've been even easier - I wonder would it work for the .185 wire us .224 swagers need - if so , oughta pop out 5' easy - that's a lotta 50 grain cores ! I can see how it's so much easier with a freshly poured in the die billet. Like to have this setup with a couple extra dies .

[rbt50]

[QUOTE=shooterg;433008]WE WANT PICS ! And will you be selling any ? Wire or extruders? I'd be interested in the 3/16 for making .224.
I now have the Blackmon dies and Corbin press that you partially financed thanks to your acquisition of the Herter's swaging gear. I probably shoulda kept that core cutter ! Been pouring cores, but for .224, it might be easier to use wire.[/QUOT




i have lead wire if you need it 2.75 lb plus shipping

[deltaenterprizes]

If I can find a supply of pure lead I may be willing to sell some. The local gun shop wants $1/lb for lead and then I need to melt it and pour billets and then extrude the wire. I did not plan on going into business when I made this set up.

I would be willing to extrude your wire for half of what you send me,but it must be pure lead no wheel weights or other hard material.

For those of you wanting to make a die, making a true hole that long is tricky. When checked it I had .020'' taper and the ram would have jammed and made a nice mess,it now only has .001'' taper and the ram has .001 clearance .0005'' per side. I get almost no lead leaking past the ram.

With the amount of time involved making tools, I would have to get $600 for a die like this one.

[shooterg]

"I would be willing to extrude your wire for half of what you send me,but it must be pure lead no wheel weights or other hard material."

David, you may be sorry you told me that - I only had 16 lbs. of pure in ingots(old roofing lead), but a friend just gave me 49 lbs. of "xray" lead in 3/4" sheets, which should be pure and probably doesn't glow in the dark !

PS, if anyone can't read/blow up/print the Collins article above, be glad to email 'em pasted into a Word document.

[deltaenterprizes]

Be careful with the roofing lead, there is a bead of 50/50 solder that joins the round part to the flat part and will make the alloy harder.
Please send me a copy of that article as a Word document.

[shooterg]

Cool pics of Deltaenterprizes wire dies.

[shooterg]

So how long a wire does this push out in each size ?

[deltaenterprizes]

So how long a wire does this push out in each size ?

It makes it for a long,long time!

3/16 dia 11'
5/16 dia 3 1/2'
3/8 dia 2'8''

[georgeld]

The outfit I built is still tack welded to the welding bench. I've moved onto other things now. Will get back to it "later", if not, what the hell, it's still there waiting when/if I ever do.

The one most of an ingot I pushed out made 15" of about half inch wire.

The rams still stuck in the bore even after I melted the lead and oil out of it with a plumbers acetylene torch. For now, that's the only fire I have that's hot enough.

Went antelope hunting, filled my doe tag, then a week later went 200 miles across CO from home to the SW corner for a muley buck. Shot a nice average buck at 75 feet while taking a break sitting on a camp chair watching does n fawns walk out of the oak brush.

Spent most of the time since then unpacking, cutting up meat, making jerky and catching up on e/mails and other things. Now my back problem is acting up again. I foresee more surgery in the future, don't have a clue when, or where yet.
Seems like life is still a constant challenge. So far I'm not giving up.

Deltaent: I like your set up.

The bored ram from the mag. Guess once the bore is filled with wire it's there from then on. Just keep pouring the chamber as needed. One thing about that system is if he'd start ramming soon as poured the lead would still be plenty hot so it would run out much easier. I may do some rethinking over winter.

Not much I can do in the shop without setting up a propane tank and radiant heater. I do that when I think it's important enough to work in the cold shop. Right now I've got over two gallons of 45 boolits cast, a 5 gal bucket of acp brass waiting to be processed and 1000 Colts coming.
Still need to cast at least two gallons of 38 SWC's yet. But, may need to hold that up til it warms up again. Had our first skiff of snow last night and it's turned chilly now. As you can read, I've got too many things to keep me occupied. Plus about 60 good books and two feet of magazine's to hold my attention for months.

Wish you all well.

[deltaenterprizes]

George, I would bore the end of the die a little bigger than the ram,press the ram through, thread the die for a plug.

[luober]

hey deltaenterprizes
1) what was the alloy that the 2.5 inch round stock was made of? (4130, 4340, scrap part?)

2) what did you bore the hole in the billet mold with? (boring bar, drill bit?)

3) did you heat or lube the billet before extruding the wire?

4) did the 20 ton press that you use seem to maxed out and possibly need a 30 ton unit?

5) is the 1 inch bolt drilled through to let the wire extrude through it as in the article that Shooterg references? (i have a copy of this article and the wire is extruded through the die button that is pushed by a hollow shaft)

thanks for your time to answer these questions and your pictures

[deltaenterprizes]

I used a piece of scrap from a welding shop that looked like a pin from a piece of heavy equipment,it had yellow paint like on a Catapilliar,machine like good steel,not cold rolled.
I used a 55/64 drill,bored to aprox 1'' and then reamed after finding the bore had .020'' taper,it now has .001'' taper.
Billets were stone cold and lubed with STP, no load on the press,squirts like toothpaste!
I have a removable plugwith a 9/16'' hole in the bottom that holds the orifices to make different dia wire, the bolt is solid.

[mactool]

Hi shoterg
Could you enlarge the table on the last page, its a bit blurry. Is the ratio 55, and the pressure 10.25 tons/sqr inch correct as well asnumber in the ratio 20 and a pressure of 9.25 tons /sqr inch??