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Thread: Another Russian Slug mold

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Another Russian Slug mold

    It finally came in. Ordered it along with 2500 or so of those wads. Iíll test these and a few other in my smoothbore.


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  2. #2
    Boolit Master BNE's Avatar
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    Link?

    You can get the wads from the same vendor?
    I'm a Happy Clinger.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Blood Trail you are the man! A mover and shaker if ever there was one! I like it.

    The Russian mould I am looking at is the Tusker version. Greg Sappington sent me some Tuskers (Dixie Slugs) to try and I really liked them though they are designed for rifled gun. The Russians make a mould like yours with different HB pins so attached wads can be used for smoothbore use. You lose a bit of weight but they are 600 grs. so still a substantial slug even if a bit lighter.

    Nothing wrong with those Gualandi clones though! I'll be interested in your results.

    Lately I am living vicariously through you and others so keep it up. My time to blast slugs is coming again though.

    Longbow

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BNE View Post
    Link?

    You can get the wads from the same vendor?
    I tried to contact Gualandi to see if they would sell me those wads. They wouldnít. Iíve been talking to my wife about the prospect of becoming a distributor after one the the Russian mold makers asked me to. Maybe I can work out something with Gualandi. I got those Gualandi wads from one of my Russian members on my buck and Slug Facebook page.
    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Blood Trail you are the man! A mover and shaker if ever there was one! I like it.

    The Russian mould I am looking at is the Tusker version. Greg Sappington sent me some Tuskers (Dixie Slugs) to try and I really liked them though they are designed for rifled gun. The Russians make a mould like yours with different HB pins so attached wads can be used for smoothbore use. You lose a bit of weight but they are 600 grs. so still a substantial slug even if a bit lighter.

    Nothing wrong with those Gualandi clones though! I'll be interested in your results.

    Lately I am living vicariously through you and others so keep it up. My time to blast slugs is coming again though.

    Longbow


    LB, kinda like these? Iím working on those as well. Iíll get back to testing once hunting season is over with.



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  5. #5
    Boolit Master BNE's Avatar
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    If you become a distributor, please let us know!!
    I'm a Happy Clinger.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    I'm liking those pictures!

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
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    yes i'd like to get some....thanks ed

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Hey BT what diameter are these Russian slugs casting for you? Do all the moulds cast same diameter more or less. How many of those moulds have you got now?

    Are they sized to suit rifled bore or smoothbore?

    Since they come with different HB pins and wad/no wad design they should be suitable for both except for that pesky different diameter thing.

    Curious minds want to know... well I do anyway.

    I do like the one in the last pic!

    Longbow

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Hey BT what diameter are these Russian slugs casting for you? Do all the moulds cast same diameter more or less. How many of those moulds have you got now?

    Are they sized to suit rifled bore or smoothbore?

    Since they come with different HB pins and wad/no wad design they should be suitable for both except for that pesky different diameter thing.

    Curious minds want to know... well I do anyway.

    I do like the one in the last pic!

    Longbow
    LB,


    The upper belt is .724
    Lower belt is .700
    Body is .614

    Has with most Russian slugs, they are designed with smoothbore shotguns in mind due to the rarity and complexity of buying a rifled barrel shotgun.

    Being a plumbata-style slug, the wad should stabilize flight without rifling.

    A lot of Russian molds have the option of buying different size pins to adjust overall weight of the slug.


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  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks for that BT.

    They should work fine in a rifled gun with or without tail wad but that small lower belt is a bit of a mystery.

    Not sure why they wouldn't size the driving bands to 0.727" to suit typical rifled guns and a little undersize for smoothbore. Or better, size to nominal 12 ga. ~ 0.729" with belts narrow enough to squeeze down for rifled gun.

    These things always mystify me, like Marlin using 1:38" twist, Lyman making Foster slug moulds that cast at 0.705", factories loading grossly undersize slugs. The list goes on and it seems no really good explanation as to why a product is designed and marketed with failure built in... or at least not optimal performance built in.

    These aren't far off at 0.724" but that is a rattle fit. I wonder if a wrap of paper would stay on? That is a benefit of wad slugs in that you can patch up to provide the correct fit if loose and the patch is protected by the wad. Not sure if a paper patched slug would make it through the bore with paper intact after leaving a relatively rough hull, opening the crimp then jumping through the forcing cone. I have read posts about cloth patched 0.690" RB's though and the claim is that the patch stays on... and these are patched like a muzzleloader when the ball is put into the hull. If a cloth patch stays on then there must be enough gas leakage to keep it tight to the ball I am thinking.

    Anyway, I digress. These Russian slugs are a little undersize but not by a lot. Certainly not to Lyman Foster standards anyway.

    What sort of accuracy are they giving you (smoothbore) and any comparative results? Seems to me you have three or four moulds so far. Does one shine brighter than the others with regards to accuracy?

    Hahaha... no matter how hard I try I can't get away from wanting to convert a side by to a "double rifle" so most likely smoothbore it will be.

    I have been thinking recently though that I took the wrong direction when starting my rifled choke tube. My rifling machine works well but I made myself a pile of work by deciding to go the Pachmyr/Cutts style muzzle brake system instead of getting my barrel bored and tapped for a commercial choke tube then just buy a blank choke tube and rifle it. If my slow twist deep groove rifling works well then I could get a side by with screw in choke tubes and rifled two blanks. Regulation would still be an issue but might be easier to deal with by rotating choke tubes and using a locknut.

    But I digress again.

    Thanks for the info and if you have comparative accuracy info I'd like to see it. I'n interested in how these shoot and how they compare. I like that last pic of what looks like a mini Paradox slug.and just might order a mould and a pile of wads.

    Longbow

    PS: Just remembered that it seems to me most of your moulds are solids for rifled gun aren't they? Is the Gualandi the only wad slug you have so far?
    Last edited by longbow; 11-12-2017 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Added PS

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Thanks for that BT.

    They should work fine in a rifled gun with or without tail wad but that small lower belt is a bit of a mystery.

    Not sure why they wouldn't size the driving bands to 0.727" to suit typical rifled guns and a little undersize for smoothbore. Or better, size to nominal 12 ga. ~ 0.729" with belts narrow enough to squeeze down for rifled gun.

    These things always mystify me, like Marlin using 1:38" twist, Lyman making Foster slug moulds that cast at 0.705", factories loading grossly undersize slugs. The list goes on and it seems no really good explanation as to why a product is designed and marketed with failure built in... or at least not optimal performance built in.

    These aren't far off at 0.724" but that is a rattle fit. I wonder if a wrap of paper would stay on? That is a benefit of wad slugs in that you can patch up to provide the correct fit if loose and the patch is protected by the wad. Not sure if a paper patched slug would make it through the bore with paper intact after leaving a relatively rough hull, opening the crimp then jumping through the forcing cone. I have read posts about cloth patched 0.690" RB's though and the claim is that the patch stays on... and these are patched like a muzzleloader when the ball is put into the hull. If a cloth patch stays on then there must be enough gas leakage to keep it tight to the ball I am thinking.

    Anyway, I digress. These Russian slugs are a little undersize but not by a lot. Certainly not to Lyman Foster standards anyway.

    What sort of accuracy are they giving you (smoothbore) and any comparative results? Seems to me you have three or four moulds so far. Does one shine brighter than the others with regards to accuracy?

    Hahaha... no matter how hard I try I can't get away from wanting to convert a side by to a "double rifle" so most likely smoothbore it will be.

    I have been thinking recently though that I took the wrong direction when starting my rifled choke tube. My rifling machine works well but I made myself a pile of work by deciding to go the Pachmyr/Cutts style muzzle brake system instead of getting my barrel bored and tapped for a commercial choke tube then just buy a blank choke tube and rifle it. If my slow twist deep groove rifling works well then I could get a side by with screw in choke tubes and rifled two blanks. Regulation would still be an issue but might be easier to deal with by rotating choke tubes and using a locknut.

    But I digress again.

    Thanks for the info and if you have comparative accuracy info I'd like to see it. I'n interested in how these shoot and how they compare. I like that last pic of what looks like a mini Paradox slug.and just might order a mould and a pile of wads.

    Longbow

    PS: Just remembered that it seems to me most of your moulds are solids for rifled gun aren't they? Is the Gualandi the only wad slug you have so far?
    The Russian slug molds I️ have so far are as follows:
    -12 and 20 ga Lyman pellet
    -Solid base hollow point Ďparadoxí
    -Svarog hollow pint segmented slug that the wad screws in to the base
    -this mold with the Wad

    I️ havenít gotten into detail in reloading, only preliminary range reports. All of the shot extremely well at 50 yards from a rifled barrel.

    Next go-around, Iíll spend more time testing from smoothbores.

    I️ plan on using my 835, 930, and 590A1



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  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    I have to say I really like that last pic of yours and the Gualandi. Those two appeal to me most. Now you got me thinking. A new mould and a thousand or so wads...

    I always like Paradox bullets but they are for a rifled gun or rifled choke. They are also quite heavy at 740 grs. These look similar, are intended for smoothbore and are lighter weight.

    You my man are an enabler! I may not be able to stop myself.

    Longbow

  13. #13
    Boolit Bub Ginsing's Avatar
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    I like the way the gualandi looks as well. I have had very good results in one of my guns with challenger slugs.
    I wonder how difficult it would be to get a mold and a 1000 wads here in Canada.
    Now you certainly have the wheels turning in my brain

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Iíll start off using Load data for the DGS slugs in BPIís Slug Manual. I️ am a little disappointed as they donít use a lot of slow burning powders.


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  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    Grossly undersized factory slugs are no mystery. They do that to avoid liability when fired from old, thin barreled, full choke shotguns.

    -HF

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    I'd have to think that any "modern" (maybe not Damascus) barrel would be fine with full bore Foster slugs. They are swaged from soft lead and they have thin skirts and noses. And they bump up to bore diameter at firing so they are full bore when they hit a choke anyway.

    When I got my Lyman Foster mould that casts at 0.705" I lived on the North Coast of BC just a bit South of the Alaska panhandle where it rains and snows wet heavy snow... a lot! I was shooting slugs trying to get decent accuracy using Lyman load data and not succeeding at all. In the spring I found many of my slugs and they were no longer 0.705". They fit the bore perfectly.

    There was no damage or distortion from being slowed by the snow. The noses were intact. However, the noses and skirts were all skewed a little different from (my take) the fact that the slug was so undersize it swole up unevenly and/or cocked as it made the jump through the forcing cone and filled out to bore diameter.

    I tried paper patching to get better fit and immediately got better accuracy. Not as good as Lyman indicated their slug would do but much improved. Like 8" groups at 50 yards instead of 12"+ groups. I did get some fliers now and again (yeah fliers out of an 8" group) which I figured was the patch suffering from opening the crimp and jumping through the forcing cone. Could also have been patches not cleanly leaving the slug too.

    So, yes to me anyway, grossly undersize factory slugs are a mystery. Once they obturate to bore diameter they are no longer undersize and they do that before they get to the choke.

    Brenneke, Gualandi and AQ slugs I have bought loaded and shot all shot better than Fosters and all were at or very near bore diameter but are safe to shoot through chokes right to full choke. Brenneke and Gualandi are also hard cast but the AQ is pure or at least very soft lead.

    Those three slugs are all of European origin and I have to think there are plenty of thin walled barrels in Europe and lots of Damascus barrels too. If there was a safety issue and possibility of liability they would have warnings not to shoot through chokes but they don't, and Brenneke for sure says their slugs can be shot through any choke.

    Longbow

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    The lyman foster mold is supposed to be used with another die that puts the fins on them like factory foster have. But good luck finding the swage die.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    You are right on the swage die and I suspect that when the grooves are swaged into the slug it swells to larger diameter. With equal width ribs and grooves if the grooves are 0.010" deep the ribs should displace about the same so a slug that casts 0.705" as my mould does would be 0.705" + 0.010" + 0.010" = 0.725" final diameter.

    The question becomes... why on earth didn't Lyman increase the slug diameter when they quit selling the rifling swage die?

    Yes, the undersize slug does swell up to fill the bore if cast from soft lead but in my experience it does so very unevenly so accuracy is poor. Since it swells up to fill the bore anyway, why make it undersize? Kinda like asking why Marlin still uses 1:38" twist rifling in .44 mag and .444. There just doesn't seem to be a good answer.

  19. #19
    Blood Trail,


    Pic 6 of 6 is the mold I am interested in for sure. Hoping you can score the distribution and help us out in Canada getting some of those beauties!

    Thanks,

    Kraken Fan #69

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    I hope they have two! I want one too!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check