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Thread: Marlin model 60 accuracy

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Marlin model 60 accuracy

    I've always liked the Marlin model 60. I helped a friend with his a while back, got it all cleaned up and shooting well. It shoots nice little nickel-sized groups at 25 yards.

    I have two of them myself, but never really sat down with sandbags to see how they do. I started tinkering with one, and found accuracy seriously lacking, like 2" to 3" shotgun patterns at 25 yards. I tried several different types of ammo, checked everything I could think of, no better. Then I pulled out the other rifle for comparison and the groups from it were just as bad!

    2" @25yards is ok for plinking tin cans across the yard, but I really expected better. It's funny, I do a google search and find all kinds of threads and such, but mostly I find people talking about how their rifle will shoot "minute of angle all day long with bulk ammo". Now I know talk like that is exaggerated baloney, but what kind of real accuracy should a person expect from a cheap .22 rifle?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    you have a major problem some place
    mine will do dime at 50yds anytime
    ammo could be problem they like federal and rem gold , wildcats and the HV cci it dont like , cci reg is good too. or the reg super X win

  3. #3
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    +1 on the Ammo. There are serious differences in quality and accuracy of ammo. Generally you want something under 1100fps. The fast shooting stuff in my experience is not accurate. Especially for longer range. (breaking the sound barrier and then back under it again) Also I have found that Remington Golden Bullets are all over the place. Sorry I can't recommend what would be best in your gun. The folks over at Rimfire Central are always talking about accuracy and what kind of ammo to get. You may want to check them out.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    I've tried several different types of ammo; CCI Minimag, Winchester M22, Federal Automatch, even some old Winchester T22. I even mounted a Leupold scope on one, though I can usually shoot inside of 2moa with iron sights. If they need some special ammo other than that I'm just going to get rid of both of them.

    I'm confused because my friends identical rifle shoots nice little 1/2" groups at 25 yards. I've cleaned them and checked everything mechanical that I can. Next time I go out I'll try fiddling with them a bit more. To me a rimfire that will shoot 2" at 100 yards is pretty good. I know a match rifle with good ammo will do way better, but for a regular rifle with regular ammo I think that's good. 2" at 25yards is not.

    If it's just an ammo problem I don't want them around. I won't have a rifle that requires it's own special little diet to work properly. I want something that will shoot at least moderately well with most anything.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Have you checked the barrel to stock alignment? If the barrel is pressing hard up against the stock crooked-like in the channel, that could cause problems. How about checking the action screws torque setting? Start at 15 inch lbs and move up to 23 to 25 inch lbs. Any more than that and you run the risk of crushing the wood. Also, some 60's have fore and aft play in the stock when you loosen the action screws. Make sure when you loosen them the action is set all the way to the rear of the stock, then retighten.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigep1764 View Post
    Have you checked the barrel to stock alignment? If the barrel is pressing hard up against the stock crooked-like in the channel, that could cause problems. How about checking the action screws torque setting? Start at 15 inch lbs and move up to 23 to 25 inch lbs. Any more than that and you run the risk of crushing the wood. Also, some 60's have fore and aft play in the stock when you loosen the action screws. Make sure when you loosen them the action is set all the way to the rear of the stock, then retighten.
    Yes, I have a Remington 514 that had a stock alignment issue. It is a big deal for accuracy.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    I think you guys might have something with that. Stock issues are my next area for attention. I didn't see anything obvious but I think I need to study up.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Crown damage?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtek View Post
    Crown damage?
    /\ that would be where I would start. The Marlin 60 is cleaned from the muzzle, a likely area to get damaged.

    After that, I would look at the stock.

    If the OP has a scope, that could also be the source of his trouble. Even if the mounts are tight the scope could still be the issue. I've seen a LOT of inexpensive scopes that would not hold a zero, even on low recoiling rifles like a .22 RF.

    I don't think the Marlin 60 is a target rifle by any means but it should do better than that.
    And once the groups shrink, then I would go in search of the particular cartridge that rifle likes. Every .22 rimfire rifle I've ever encountered would show a strong preference for a particular type of cartridge. You can often reduce group sizes by half just by finding the brand and type of cartridge the rifle likes. However, there's no sense in going on that journey until the problem is found.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I aint ever bagged a model 60. I sighted my current 22 rifle, a model 60 from the setting position, irons. I got it good enough to hit a shotgun shell at 50 yards off my target board. I cant see past bout 50 yards so, its cool with me.

    I have bagged a marlin 15 though. It did a small ragged hole at 25 yards with federal bulk and a scope.

    I had a remington 41 targetmaster that, with irons and good light and a rest, I could hit an empty 22 case at 25 yards or a bit more with federal bulk. And the wife had a crickett that I could do the same with but it liked winchester 333 bulk. Did pretty good with federal. Both of those I used to shoot off the top of my car across the yard to the fence.

    I've had several 22s that would only do 2" or so at 25 yards, one was a different 41 targetmaster. I mostly shoot offhand. But even off hand, I can hit a shotgun shell at 25 yards with a 22 rifle.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Well dangit. I got serious today,my son and I loaded up a bunch of .22 rifles and headed to the range. The only bays available were pistol bays so I was shooting at 25 yards, carefully and with sandbags.

    I shot my old H&R Leatherneck. It kept them within about an inch with iron sights. Not very good but not terrible. Then I put the Leupold scope on my grandfather's old Mossberg 151 that he gave me when I was young. It did best with Mini-mags, making those nice tiny dime-sized groups that we all like. In a ten shot group about half of them went through the same hole! That convinced me it wasn't the scope or mount.

    I then proceeded to put the scope on one model 60 then the other. The first one consistently hovered around 2" with any ammo I put in it. The other one I had tinkered with the stock bedding, to raise it up to where the stock was solidly contacting the action and not the barrel or tube. It was terrible, throwing bullets far and wide, maybe 4" plus. There is a clue.

    I have the darn thing completely apart in front of me right now. Once I pulled the tube and was down to the bare barrelled action, the problem became obvious. The stinking barrel is loose in the receiver! It's held in by a pin but otherwise rattles slightly! I haven't torn the other one apart yet to see if it has a similar problem.

    How to fix this? I'm thinking some careful peening/knurling of the barrel shank, and epoxy it in place?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Try glass bedding compound. A friend had one that someone had deliberately tried to destroy by swinging it like a ball bat at a tree. The stock was broken and the barrel was very very loose in the receiver.
    After fixing the stock using accraglass as glue I put some on the barrel shank and drove an oversized cross pin in. It was tight as it could be after that and printed tight groups.
    Since the cross pin hole was also ovaled a bit I used a small rod needle file to true it up first.



    Only other way would probably be to bore out the receiver opening and rethread for an adapter, I don't see that as being worth the effort.
    To be feasible one should also turn down the barrel shank and thread it into the adapter, to insured sufficient wall thickness without removing too much metal from the receiver. That's really more work than these are worth. Though if you have the proper tools it might not be that difficult. Keeping everything lined up is the hard part.

    I've never run across one of these or the parent design that had any accuracy problems other than that single badly abused gun.

    I usually got 1.25 MOA firing at 100 yards using Winchester T22 with my first Glenfield 60, and the 99M1 I have now is probably at least as accurate though I've not really put it to the test yet.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    I took the barrel out, sharpened up the knurling on the shank with a sharp chisel (carefully), then drove it in with some epoxy on it. It's curing now. I also did a little bedding on the stock. We'll see how that works.

    The other rifle is a bit of a mystery. The barrel is solid as a rock on that one. If the first one shows significant improvement on accuracy maybe I'll try some stock bedding with it too.

    It always impresses me when I hear of someone shooting around that magical 1moa with a .22lr. I have several centerfire rifles that will do that or better, but have never been able to do it with a rimfire, with any ammo. The best I could do was when I put a heavy barrel on my 10/22 and bedded the stock, around 1.5 moa with good ammo. I haven't had much luck with 10/22s out of the box. Generally not terribly accurate in my experience.

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    Interesting. I'm surprised it made it past quality control, but everybody puts out a lemon from time to time. The epoxy is probably fine for .22LR. Another fix would be to turn the barrel shank down or bore out the receiver (or both) and shim the barrel in the receiver, sizing it to a press fit. You'd have to be sure to check headspace before drilling for the retaining pin.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    The one with the loose barrel is an old gun, and it looked like someone had monkeyed with it before at some point. The barrel pin appeared to have been out before, and the barrel shank looked a little funky, so who knows. When I sharpened the knurling it was actually pretty tight. I think between that and the epoxy it should be ok.

    The other rifle is of the same vintage but looks to have been shot very little. It still has a factory sticker on the stock. It actually belongs to my son. A family friend gave it to us before he was born and it's his when he's old enough, which won't be for a few more years. I guess I can't get rid of that one, and will need to put in the effort to try to make it shoot a little better. I just don't see any obvious problem. The barrel is solid. The stock looks good. The sights, mount, and scope are good. The rifling and crown look good. I'll figure it out eventually, unless the barrel is just a lemon.Attachment 207608

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatelk View Post
    .........

    It always impresses me when I hear of someone shooting around that magical 1moa with a .22lr. I have several centerfire rifles that will do that or better, but have never been able to do it with a rimfire, with any ammo. The best I could do was when I put a heavy barrel on my 10/22 and bedded the stock, around 1.5 moa with good ammo. I haven't had much luck with 10/22s out of the box. Generally not terribly accurate in my experience.
    I had a Remington 541T with the standard barrel (thin barrel profile) than would easily hold less than 1 MOA. Like a complete idiot, I traded it during a purchase of a heavy barrel 541T. That rifle shoots just as well as the old one but no better than the old one. It of course weighs considerably more than that old standard barrel model.
    An acquaintance has a CZ and an Anschutz target rifle (can't recall which model) and the CZ shoots AS good as the Anschutz!

    As for the 10/22, out of all of the semi-auto rimfire rifles, the 10/22 is my favorite. With the right setup and ammo, they can be 1 MOA guns. The 10/22 is incredibly reliable and they have proven to be durable as well but I don't think the design lends itself to extremely fine accuracy. By the time you get a replacement barrel with a tight enough chamber to start seeing smaller groups, the reliability starts to drop off.

    ALL rimfires will show a preference for a particular type of ammo. Finding the ammo your rifle likes is the single best method to gain results in terms of accuracy.

    Standard velocity .22 rimfire target ammo that starts subsonic and therefore stays subsonic, will almost always yield better accuracy than the high speed rounds that go transonic before they reach their target. Obviously range plays a factor in this.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 11-12-2017 at 10:51 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    HV in it will kill th buffer. The receiver must be pushed back all the way. Fire one, eject the next and look for nose damage. Do not crank down on the rings to receiver to keep the scope in place. I jbwelded a couple roll pins in the grooves to hold it. I also put a washer above the wood on the front screw. I'd check the crown too.
    Whatever!

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks guys. I've gotten lots of good suggestions from this thread. It will be a while before I can get out to the range again, but I've got it back together now and will see how it does when I can. The crown is in the photo above. I looked at it carefully under light with a loupe. I really don't see any problems with the crown. I've seen worse that shoot better.

    I appreciate the advice on precision shooting, and I do enjoy precision, but for these rifles I'll be happy with good enough. It's a kids gun that will be used for shooting tin cans so if I can get it to shoot 2 or 3 moa with bulk ammo I'll be happy.

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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    Here's another suggestion. While squirrel hunting, I found I couldn't hit anything with my Marlin 60. Heading back to the range I determined I was hitting about 1.5" below point of aim and shooting about a 1" group at 25 yards. Looking at the gun, I noticed the stock was contacting the barrel in several places and the action screw had been compacting the wood stock.

    I relieved the barrel channel, ensuring no contact with the barrel was occurring. I made a pillar and epoxied in the stock so the action screw would bear against steel instead of crushing the wood stock. My group size shrunk to about .5" at 25 yards, but I noticed the barrel was being pulled to the left and was contacting the stock again. My next project on this will be to remove the magazine tube and epoxy bed the front part of the action and first inch or so of barrel. I'll leave a business card to shim the barrel while the epoxy cures to ensure the action will be true in the stock. I hope this will further reduce my group size. I will also look at installing some type of shim for the rear part of the action to bear against which should also help.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    Well, I give up, at least for now. I can't decide whether to get some satisfaction by feeding these two rifles through a wood chipper, or save them for the next "buy back" I hear about. No, not really. I'll just shove them back in the safe until I feel like messing with them again. I've wasted too much time and ammo on them already for now.

    I fixed the loose barrel on the one, thought that might do it, and carefully did some basic stock bedding on both of them. Absolutely no change in accuracy, for either one. I'm sure someone here has some magic bullets or super secret benchrest technique that would make tack drivers out of them, but for now I'm through.

    It's not the sights or the scope. I've ruled that out thoroughly. It's not my shooting ability. I get nice little groups with my old Mossberg .22 using the same scope, and today I was getting nice little groups with my old Romanian trainer .22 with iron sights. I was even getting better groups with my ratty old Ishapor Enfield and untested cast loads!

    I don't think it's the bedding or the crowns. I'm not a gunsmith or really any kind of expert, but I've been doing this kind of thing for decades and am not a newbie. The one rifle was given to me for my kid from a friend. At the time he mentioned that it would be an ok kids gun but he didn't really like it. I suspect now because it's not very accurate. The other was a gun show junker I got cheap long ago, maybe because it's a lemon? I have seen barrels that just plain won't shoot straight for no apparent reason. I know, there's got to be a reason, but I just don't see it. I'm done fiddling with these lemons for now.

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