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Thread: pp

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    pp

    walther pp French made manuhin 32 auto are they any good ?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



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    For me, the fit and finish are a touch below grade while function is fine compared to the Walther walther.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Excellent guns for how little they cost when imported. As far as I know the Manhurin PP is an actual license built copy of the Walther, not a knockoff. You never see them for sale around here even though Centerfire sold hundreds of them.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Have one of the manhurin walther licensed PP's. All steel and no mystery metal. And at close range very accurate with either U.S. or foreign 32 acp ammo. Mine came with two mags and the original box. Just watch how you hold it as they have kinda reputation of being a bighter. By that I mean the hammer can pinch the skin that may or may not come up over what passes for a beavertail on the frame. Frank

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Excellent guns for how little they cost when imported. As far as I know the Manhurin PP is an actual license built copy of the Walther, not a knockoff. You never see them for sale around here even though Centerfire sold hundreds of them.
    My understanding was that the French seized the Walther plant's machinery at the end of WWII as war reparations, and relocated it to France. I have one of the Centerfire Manhurin PPs that was much carried but apparently fired little. It has an absolutely atrocious DA trigger pull, but shoots well enough in the SA mode. A fun little gun, although I do not currently reload for the .32 ACP.
    'I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more, Toto!' Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    They were made in France and then shipped to Ulm, West Germany to be finally assembled and tested, proofed. Mine is a 1965 gun and has the Ulm address and German proofs. Fabulous little gun, probably better than my PPK-S in 380 from Interarms around 1993.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The all-steel PPs are FAR superior to the light alloy frame usual postwar .32 ACPs.

    These postwar French guns are good, sturdy shooters which will stand up to hot loads which disassemble a Keltec or crack the frame on your Beretta Tomcat. Load 3 grains of AutoComp with the 90-grain Hornady XTP .309", or the 85-grain XTP .312" (if needed to fit a larger barrel only!) at 0.955" OAL for 950 fps (+P) from the PP. Typical water jug expansion shown below.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    or 2 grains of TiteGroup with any of these Accurate cast bullets for .32 ACP, full charge loads at 900 fps:

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    The rough DA pull can be worked on to provide a heavy, if smooth DA trigger pull. Best of all the Manhurin guns sell used for about $100-150 LESS than a postwar Walther Ulm pistol in similar condition. Great buy!
    Last edited by Outpost75; 11-09-2017 at 11:04 AM.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I have seen a number of Manurhin Walther PP examples over the years, and fired a couple of them owned by friends. I cannot see much--if any--difference between the Manurhins and my 1964-made Walther PP from the original maker. I have owned a bunch of 32 ACP pistols over the years, and at the end of the day the PP has stayed while the others went down the road.

    I haven't expanded the 32 ACP's performance envelope as widely as has Outpost 75, but I do run 71 grain FMJs and Lyman #311252 to the caliber's full potential of 900 FPS most of the time. USA-level 32 ACP loadings of the 71 grain FMJ seldom exceed 750 FPS IME--you have to find European loadings or fill your own ammo to get actual OEM performance from this caliber.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    WW2-era US loadings were hotter than the current fodder. Here is some firing data which readers may find interesting:

    Table 1 - .32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” Current Euro-CIP and Buffalo Bore +P Factory Ammunition

    Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”
    WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ_______907 fps, 14 Sd_________977 fps, 11 Sd
    WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ__________923 fps, 28 Sd_________1001 fps, 15 Sd
    RWS 73-grain FMJ_______________896 fps, 29 Sd__________981 fps, 16 Sd
    Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ_____________848, fps, 32 Sd_________917 fps, 11 Sd

    Average 73-grain “Hardball” Velocity_894 fps_______________969 fps
    Average 73 grain “Hardball” Energy_128 ft.-lbs.____________150 ft.-lbs.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 6 Sd__________997 fps, 7 Sd
    Buffalo Bore 75-grain Energy______128 ft.-lbs.____________164 ft.-lbs.

    Loads exceeding 130 ft.-lbs. of energy are not recommended for use in Beretta Tomcat or Keltec Pistols


    Table 2 - Cast Bullet Velocity Required to Equal “Average Factory Energy” With Various Bullet Weights

    _________________________▪2.4” Barrel”___________3.4” Barrel”
    Avg. 73-gr. “Hardball” Energy_▪128 ft.-lbs. ___________150 ft.-lbs.
    77 grain bullet______________▪865 fps________________938 fps
    87-grain bullet______________▪815 fps________________882 fps
    90-grain bullet______________▪800 fps________________865 fps
    95-grain bullet______________▪780 fps________________845 fps
    100-grain bullet_____________▪770 fps________________830 fps

    ▪ Loads intended for Beretta Tomcat and Keltec pistols should be kept below these limits.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
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    THAT is some keenly-interesting info regarding the 32 ACP, esp. about the USA WWII-era ammo. Even the W-W 60 grain Silvertips are a little lackluster......835-850 FPS from the PP.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I have a late war PP I picked up cheap, and its a surprisingly good shooter. The finish looks a bit "hurried". I always joked that Allied bullets must have been bouncing off the factory doors when mine was churned out

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I have a InterArms PP that I picked up cheap on a trade several years ago. I keep it because it
    functions smoothly and is reasonably accurate for a pistol of its type. I've had several Nazi marked
    PPs and they were of better fit and finish but were worth more to collectors than me. In fact the
    PP is the only handgun I own that doesn't have target or hunting applications. I am a firm believer
    in not carrying any 2nd rate junk and If I didn't trust it I would trade it off.Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    THAT is some keenly-interesting info regarding the 32 ACP, esp. about the USA WWII-era ammo. Even the W-W 60 grain Silvertips are a little lackluster......835-850 FPS from the PP.
    Stout +P carry load is 3 grains of AutoComp in Starline case with Federal 200 primer, Hornady .309" XTP bullet at 0.955" OAL 950 fps for steel frame pistols only! Replacement of stock . 32 ACP recoil spring with .380 spring in Walther PP is recommended.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by milltownhunter View Post
    walther pp French made manuhin 32 auto are they any good ?
    They are excellent guns !

    Shamelessly stolen from Wikipedia:
    "Walther's original factory was located in Zella-Mehlis in the "Land" (state) of Thuringia. As that part of Germany was occupied by the Soviet Union following World War II, Walther fled to West Germany, where they established a new factory in Ulm. For several years following the war, the Allied powers forbade any manufacture of weapons in Germany. As a result, in 1952, Walther licensed production of the PP series pistols to a French company, Manufacture de Machines du Haut-Rhin, also known as Manurhin. The French company continued to manufacture the PP series until 1986."

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check