Ammo can for locking firearm for airline flight

[NavyVet1959]

Just as an FYI, you’re not supposed to use a TSA lock on your guns. You’re only supposed to use a lock that only you have the key or the combination for. If TSA wants to inspect the contents they will ask you to open it.

Actually, according to the United website, it says that if you use a TSA lock, it can speed up the check in procedure. I've never seen anything on the TSA or the airline's sites to say that you cannot use a TSA lock on it. On my normal plastic gun case, I use a pretty heavy lock around the handle. It's debatable whether good lock on a piece of plastic is more secure than a crappy lock on a piece metal. When I get back home, I'll redesign it to allow for a thicker hasp made from a flat piece metal so that a lock with a thicker shackle can be used on it.

The main thing though is that this makes for a pretty compact container to put inside of your luggage that will also easily accommodate 2 handguns plus a few loaded mags if you add proper padding for everything.

[dragon813gt]

TSA tells you to use a lock that ONLY YOU have a key for. You're not supposed to use a TSA lock. The fact that every airline and the TSA tells you different is a problem. The TSA wants no one to have access but you.

It doesn't specifically prohibit the use of a TSA lock but the language used says not to use one: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transport...and-ammunition

Those are the actual rules regarding transport of firearms and ammunition. Those are the ones the airlines are supposed to use. The biggest is misunderstanding is ammo and a firearm in the same container. Some airlines want them placed separately.

[Petrol & Powder]

As I said earlier, I don't think there's a lot to be gained by making the locking mechanism harder to defeat. The would be thief will just take the entire box with him and open it at a time and place of his convenience.

[NavyVet1959]

TSA tells you to use a lock that ONLY YOU have a key for. You're not supposed to use a TSA lock. The fact that every airline and the TSA tells you different is a problem. The TSA wants no one to have access but you.

They're all supposed to be working from the same rule book, but my experience is that it is quite a bit different going though the different airports. I seem to remember reading on one of their sites where they were supposed to verify that the gun was unloaded, but interestingly, no one did that at IAH yesterday. A few years ago, I was flying out of an airport where they said that my ammo container was not acceptable and it could only be a manufacturer's ammo container. It was one of the plastic ammo containers with a separate square for each piece of ammo. So, I end up losing all of the ammo that I had with me. Somehow, that was not an acceptable container, but a lightweight cardboard box that just had loose pieces of ammo in it (i.e. no plastic or styrofoam insert) was acceptable since that was how that particular manufacturer sold their ammo. I complained to the airline, ATF, FAA, and TSA (figured I would cover all my bases to keep them from passing the buck) and they said that my ammo container was acceptable and they would instruct the agents of this. I've since noticed that the official rules on ammo containers have changed to allow such containers.

Not every airline has a weight limit on ammo, but United's site explicitly states that there is an 11 lb limit. But since the United agent was not inspecting the baggage, that makes me wonder how they will enforce it. The TSA employee was inspecting the baggage and she seemed more intent on running her hands (apparently containing a chemical sensitive wipe) through everything in the bag than with checking the actual contents of the bag. Besides, with each airline having a different maximum ammo weight limit, you can't really expect the TSA employee to know each airline's maximum ammo weight limit. But why is the airline even concerned with it since most of the weight is probably just the lead in the bullets anyway. They do have a limit on the maximum caliber and that looks to be around .75". Too bad... Otherwise, I would grab a couple of 30mm casing, fill them with powder up to the top, put a piece of tape over it, and call it a blank round. Then I would just have to find another workaround for the primers and I could reload at my destination.

[dragon813gt]

The fact that they don't all have the same rules is a problem. It does nothing to make you safer. Lately they've been flagging my backpack because I carry the spare batteries for my drills in it. They tried to take them at PHL. The TSA agents don't know their own rules. A supervisor corrected the agent but it cost me almost an hour. Like I said, it does nothing to make you safer.

[OS OK]

These situations are what you can expect in the future since they place Morons in a position of authority.

This is exactly what happens when you willingly give up your freedom for so-called security.

[dragon813gt]

Willingly? No one had a choice in the matter. I curse Bush every time I go through a security checkpoint. The TSA has done nothing but make my life harder. Thankfully I get paid for all of my travel time. If I didn't I would be very angry because you have to get to the airport 2-3 hours early to make sure you clear security and don't miss your flight.

[Handloader109]

I've seen an alteration similar to what you did navy vet. If it were me, I'd cross drill for a simple cotter pin on the outside to hold the pin in place. I guess the other alternative would be to thread it and put thin nut on it, but that is a way harder thing to do.

[edp2k]

Question:

As I understand it, the container is locked in order to satisfy the letter of the regulation,
and not to actually be a high security device/container that prevents determined, intense action from actually opening the container.

The true "security" in this case is in the airport only allowing access to the baggage by employees and cleared people, etc.,
because someone could just take the locked container, leave the premises, and open it later when they have time and tools.
Correct?

That said, since a typical gun "rug" has a sewn on "D" ring at the end of the zipper track where the zipper pull
can be threaded through and padlocked, wouldn't this suffice?

And gun rugs are slim and several can fit in even small luggage.

[NavyVet1959]

Question:

As I understand it, the container is locked in order to satisfy the letter of the regulation,
and not to actually be a high security device/container that prevents determined, intense action from actually opening the container.

The true "security" in this case is in the airport only allowing access to the baggage by employees and cleared people, etc.,
because someone could just take the locked container, leave the premises, and open it later when they have time and tools.
Correct?

That said, since a typical gun "rug" has a sewn on "D" ring at the end of the zipper track where the zipper pull
can be threaded through and padlocked, wouldn't this suffice?

And gun rugs are slim and several can fit in even small luggage.

From a practical standpoint, it would provide just as much "security", but the rules explicitly say a "locked hard-sided container".

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transport...and-ammunition

You may transport unloaded firearms in a locked hard-sided container as checked baggage only. Declare the firearm and/or ammunition to the airline when checking your bag at the ticket counter. The container must completely secure the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be easily opened are not permitted. Be aware that the container the firearm was in when purchased may not adequately secure the firearm when it is transported in checked baggage.

There's an issue with locked zippers being able to be opened with a ballpoint pen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpIJVWXsBBI

If your luggage has a place where the zipper pulls can be locked into position, then you can at least make it a lot more difficult for them to do this and it not be noticed. They could still open the bag, but the zipper could not be reassembled and it would be obvious that it had been tampered with.

What originally gave me the idea of making a locking mechanism for an ammo can and using it for flying was that I had seen a foam insert at Academy Sports on Sunday when I was buying the 100-round ammo boxes. Something like this:



I couldn't remember what size ammo cans that I had, so I didn't buy it. I figured that the neoprene tablet covers that I already had would work well enough and if necessary, I could add more padding by moving my socks in there. Also, if you have the type of ammo can as pictured in the above image, you will see that the hole in the latch is quite a bit larger than the one that is in mine, so if you were wanting to modify that type of ammo can, you would need to come up with a different locking mechanism. You could probably still use something similar, but you would need a metal plate that could cover that opening (and overlap it some) to act as a big fender washer and then put the lock outside of that.

[woodbutcher]

Don`t even get me started on what the initials TSA stand for.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[NavyVet1959]

Well, I made it back from Las Vegas. Didn't spend a single cent at any of the shows, bars, or gambling. I did end up buying a buffet meal at the hotel I was at, but only because they had a 50% off deal for vets for Veteran's Day. Spent a bit of time out in the desert shooting though. So far, the best place I've found is off to the northwest of Las Vegas, off of US-95, off of Cold Creek Road.

Basically, head to 36°31'25.5"N 115°32'53.9"W and turn WSW on Cold Creek Road.
Continue SW past the correctional facilities until you get to 36°28'51.0"N 115°37'36.3"W.
Turn a *very* sharp right turn towards the NNE on a dirt road / trail.
There's quite a few different shooting areas around here:
36°30'02.4"N 115°37'30.5"W
36°29'21.6"N 115°38'38.0"W is the end of the road.

I met a guy who was doing 1600 yd shots, IIRC. I'm not sure, but I think to do those shots, he might be shooting over the heads of the people in the valley that are shooting at the pistol areas.

You are *supposed* to clean up your brass and targets afterwards, but there was a lot of trash that people had brought out there and shot. Everything from fire extinguisher tanks to TV sets to water heaters. I ended up collecting about 3 2-liter bottles of .223 and miscellaneous handgun brass that was in still shiny, so it had been shot pretty recently. Also collected a Wal-Mart bag full of some fresh fired 12-gauge hulls.

I collected enough that even though I had shot all my ammo during the trip, my luggage weight increased enough that I had to move 8 lbs of brass from my luggage to my wife's luggage. My bag was 49.5 lbs and her's was 48.5 lbs after the shuffling. Interestingly, the TSA supervisor that I spoke with said that I could have brought the brass onboard the aircraft in my carry-on luggage.

Another place on the SW side of Las Vegas where I shot earlier in the week was:

35°59'53.4"N 115°35'53.9"W

[Elkins45]

Actually, according to the United website, it says that if you use a TSA lock, it can speed up the check in procedure. I've never seen anything on the TSA or the airline's sites to say that you cannot use a TSA lock on it. On my normal plastic gun case, I use a pretty heavy lock around the handle. It's debatable whether good lock on a piece of plastic is more secure than a crappy lock on a piece metal. When I get back home, I'll redesign it to allow for a thicker hasp made from a flat piece metal so that a lock with a thicker shackle can be used on it.

The main thing though is that this makes for a pretty compact container to put inside of your luggage that will also easily accommodate 2 handguns plus a few loaded mags if you add proper padding for everything.

I realize it doesn’t matter now, but this is what TSA says:

Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations.

United can’t overrule TSA, nor can any other airline. In my case it doesn’t matter because I bought one of these Snap Safe metal containers from Amazon and it doesn’t have a TSA lock. I can fit my Kahr P9, holster, spare mag and a 20 round box of ammo inside it and loop the metal cable around the internal suitcase frame to lock it.

So far, so good.

[Plate plinker]

Nice boxes fellas.

As for the TSA blah..... What a bunch of mass incompetence. I really liked it when my wife had to drink her own milk. Last trip was just myself and the kids, that trip they tossed the juice box my son drinks but daughters was in plain sight. They said his was over the size limit even though daughters juice was bigger.

[Mal Paso]

I cheated and used an off the shelf product. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was down to hand tools at the time. This will take a heavy duty lock.

[NavyVet1959]

I cheated and used an off the shelf product. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was down to hand tools at the time. This will take a heavy duty lock.

That's basically what I was thinking about for version 2...

[Mal Paso]

Someone here in the USA is making brand new Ammo Cans. Ammo Can Man I think. I bought the 2 packs at Costco and "Fat 50s" from Amazon. They are well made and Fully Air Tight. I used Silicone under the eyebolts to maintain that seal. One is a gun case, two of them are camera cases. The locks I used are big enough to take a large aircraft cable to secure them to car, truck or tractor. I had the Nikon in one when I was running the rapids last Winter on the tractor.

[texasnative46]

To All,

I reread my previous post & should add that my "redneck gun box" is a 5.56 ammo can with a hole bored through it to fit a Master "removable shackle" padlock (I think it was made for securing bikes.) & padded with a scrap of carpet.. = Never had a problem with TSA in all my airline travels with it over 15+ years, while carrying a pair of handguns & boxed ammo.
(I have had several TSA folks, who said that they would "copy my box".)

yours, tex