Is there a general consensus of what was the most accurate military bolt rifle?

[6bg6ga]

We could condense this and just say that they all were pretty accurate in the right hands under the right conditions. Having shot them all one would really be hard pressed to pick a real winner my opinion.

[AbitNutz]

And spoil a good argument? Are you nuts?

[AbitNutz]

The Krag was always considered to be an accurate rifle within the limitations of its cartridge.
The Krag cleaned the clock of every other military rifle at the Palma matches one year but was disqualified because the rifles used had custom made barrels and the ammunition used was specially made match grade ammunition nothing like the standard mil spec Ball ammo.

I had no idea....my only exposure to that cartridge is to a Winchester 1895 I have in 30-40 Krag.

[WILCO]

There are reasons why the Mauser design is still popular and the most copied.

[Speedo66]

I would have to put a vote in for 6.5x55 Swedes. Mauser 1896.

[Bigslug]

And spoil a good argument? Are you nuts?

Well we could really muddy the waters:

What would you rather have; a NIB, pre-war Italian Carcano, or a 98K made after the plant tooling was "recalibrated" by a B-17?

[bob208]

having owned and shot most of the rifles. I can say there is not a wits bit of difference between them. it is all in the sights. as far as sights the simpler they are the easier to teach raw recruits to use them. with that the number 4 enfield and the 1917 enfield and 03a3 win out. maybe no as finely adjustable but then too fine can be a curse too.
it was said the americans build a target rifle. the germans build a sporting rifle the british build a fighting rifle.

[vzerone]

There are reasons why the Mauser design is still popular and the most copied.

.....and most turn bolts with two front locking lugs are derivatives of the Mauser action.

[oldhenry]

I would have to put a vote in for 6.5x55 Swedes. Mauser 1896.

+1

All 3 of mine are crazy accurate.

Henry

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'm sure there is more difference between individual rifles of the same type, than there is between different types. That goes double in military service, where a rifle may have gone through a lot of heavy use, excessive rapid, and ben soaked and dried out in less than ideal conditions.

I can't think of any situation which strikes me as making open sights superior to aperture ones, and the P14 and M1917 Enfields were by decades the first to have that in an easily adjusted and well protected form. Windage was by using a screw adjuster on the front sight, and elevation was corrected to the engraved range mark by substituting a different front sight blade. But that should be all the ordinary soldier, using standard ammunition needs. I should think more have gone wrong through unwise twiddling of a windage knob, than from not having one.

[vzerone]

I'm sure there is more difference between individual rifles of the same type, than there is between different types. That goes double in military service, where a rifle may have gone through a lot of heavy use, excessive rapid, and ben soaked and dried out in less than ideal conditions.

I can't think of any situation which strikes me as making open sights superior to aperture ones, and the P14 and M1917 Enfields were by decades the first to have that in an easily adjusted and well protected form. Windage was by using a screw adjuster on the front sight, and elevation was corrected to the engraved range mark by substituting a different front sight blade. But that should be all the ordinary soldier, using standard ammunition needs. I should think more have gone wrong through unwise twiddling of a windage knob, than from not having one.

Where do you get that the P14 and M1917 had a windage adjustment screw on the front sight? Am I missing something?

[Artful]

What's nice about the SMLE's is that if they do get dirt or mud in them they are easier to clean it out.

Hmmm



Compared to



vs



and

[AbitNutz]

yeah...I was unimpressed by the ability of a bolt action to recover from mud as well...

[lefty o]

my own experiences say you may get a very accurate example of any of them, but the most likely will be an 1896 swede mauser.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Where do you get that the P14 and M1917 had a windage adjustment screw on the front sight? Am I missing something?

I may not have explained clearly enough for everyone that the P14 and M1917 had front sight windage adjustment by a screw accessory, which normally only a unit armourer would have. It was a little clamplike device, which could move the front sight. It is all the ordinary combat rifleman needs.

The WW1 sniper I knew in childhood was smaller, weaker and infinitely less assertive than the female soldiers of today, considered it his Christian duty, for four years, to send Germans home to take their pension whenever he had the choice. He said shooting was the easy end of his business, and zeroing adjustments were for the range. But forty years after he last used a high powered rifle, he could look out of his window, six hundred yards to the railway pier, and say "Twenty-eight inches left today".

[Ballistics in Scotland]

What's nice about the SMLE's is that if they do get dirt or mud in them they are easier to clean it out. You don't have a bolt going inside a front receiver ring like in the Mausers. The SMLE is one hell of a battle rifle with lots of years under it's belt.

None of them work reliably if they are cycled with mud covering the action. In the old photographs of men in vile conditions, the things to note are whether they are still smiling, and whether the rifles are cleaner than the men. The SMLE was easier to get back in working order after being jammed with mud, though, and the oversized chamber so much complained of today was a help too. All the accuracy in the world is no good if the opposition gets to shoot first.

The Swiss believed that a straight-pull action was less likely to work dirt into the bolt way than a turnbolt, and I find that convincing. I very much like the 1895 Austro-Hungarian rifle, which I think compares very well with the modern commercial straight-pull actions, although none of them can be cycled in silence. But I think even that would more easily admit mud between bolt and bolt-head than my Swiss 1889, which isn't quite as modern, strong or compact as the 1911.

I do believe the most accurate military rifle I ever shot was a Martini-Henry, converted to .303 in the 1890s.

[kens]

I got the '96 Swede, 1903, M98, and a M39 nagant.
The M39 is my 'go-to' steel gong ringer.

[vzerone]

I may not have explained clearly enough for everyone that the P14 and M1917 had front sight windage adjustment by a screw accessory, which normally only a unit armourer would have. It was a little clamplike device, which could move the front sight. It is all the ordinary combat rifleman needs.

The WW1 sniper I knew in childhood was smaller, weaker and infinitely less assertive than the female soldiers of today, considered it his Christian duty, for four years, to send Germans home to take their pension whenever he had the choice. He said shooting was the easy end of his business, and zeroing adjustments were for the range. But forty years after he last used a high powered rifle, he could look out of his window, six hundred yards to the railway pier, and say "Twenty-eight inches left today".

That's what I thought. Some of the Swede's had very good fully adjustable sights. The Mk III* Lithglow had a very nice robust windage adjustable rear sight. I think a U notch and blade front sight to be better in the dark then a peep sight.

[Bent Ramrod]

You might look for a copy of Dunlap’s Ordnance Went Up Front. He had a chance to fire almost everything that was used in WWII, and he had some commentary on the relative accuracy and reliability of the designs.

I seem to recall that he said we should quit sneering at the accuracy of the Italian and Japanese rifles once the 03-A3s were issued. Enemy prisoners questioned said that the only danger they were in past 600 yards or so was from extreme bad luck. May have been a “shooter problem,” of course.

[Multigunner]

.....and most turn bolts with two front locking lugs are derivatives of the Mauser action.

Actually the first bolt action rifle to have twin opposed forwards mounted locking lugs was the American Greene Bolt action manufactured during the US Civil War.
The Lebel with twin lugs also predated both the GEW88 and the Mauser rifles.

Most distinctive features of the Mauser actions were not patented by Mauser, the Extractor and magazine along with the stripper clips were Mauser patented designs.