Inline FabricationGraf & SonsRotoMetals2Titan Reloading
ADvertise hereStainLess Steel MediaLee Precision

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 39 of 39

Thread: Opinion Request: Best Milsurp candidate(s) for casting?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master quail4jake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    The North Woods of Pennsylvania
    Posts
    307
    "The .30-'06 is never a mistake"-Col. Townsend Whelan. So...I would recommend a pristine, magnaflux negative M1917 with Al Nelson's recommended NOE boolit. Right! now something budget friendly; A #4 Enfield, pound slug the throat and call NOE with the results or send the slug to Veral Smith for a custom mould. This is my advice for a first milsurp with the goal to eliminate headbanging and please, don't reinvent the wheel just refer to Cast Boolits for advice and enjoy your success! Save the 6,5 Sverge until you cut your teeth, great rifle and ctg for cast boolits but requires tweaking, tapered long throat etc. BTW, it is my goal to have a M1917 shooting well with a cast boolit along with a full US expeditionary forces uniform sometime in 2018! Won't you wish me well?!

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    My thoughts as well. A new gun that can easily be scoped. In something like .308. Cheap brass. Great accuracy. A mil-surp neds to be in the $200 range to make sense.
    I honestly hadn't realized that the savage can get down to <300, depending on sales. Though oddly, in WI armslist at least, used savages are about as expensive as used 8mm Mauser.

    My leaning towards milsurp is 2 fold.
    1. Watching the .303 rifles come down in price I was/am hopeful that people who don't cast and form their own brass will get rid of good guns because no cheap ammo. While casting can keep it in business longer 2. I do trust the milsurp to stand up to sustained fire (God forbid it becomes necessary) better than an entry level hunting rifle. If I didn't have in the back of my mind, "If I ever need..." I'd probably just start looking for a savage.

    I appreciate all the replies and information. I'm also a big believer that fit is king so I'll start peering down bores and hefting rifles to see if I find one that feels good for the right price. And I'll make sure to heft a savage or two as well.
    "There are no solutions there are only tradeoffs" ~ Thomas Sowell

  3. #23
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    2,342
    PS,

    When I suggested the Savage, it is not because I own one. I nearly bought one but decided the Howa was a better gun and I found one on sale at a price I could not walk away from. I still think the Savage is one of the best buys out there.

    I am an old man. I remember when years ago the mil-surps had their place, but the price was right (.303's were going for $15 and M98's for $50 back then!). Most are not easy to scope, and the triggers are not good. Brass for some is not cheap. They are heavy etc etc. Not much appeal unless the nostalgia factor is important to you.

    I doubt a modern gun will give you any issues with "sustained fire". A bolt gun is not the best choice in that scenario anyway, but that is a different topic.

    BTW, a couple of years ago I bought a new HB Model 700 for under $400 during a Black Friday sale. It was the basis for my "sniper" rifle. Keep on the lookout at places like CDNN for good deals on new guns.

    Cold hard logic is conspicuously absent from most gun purchases. I know...I am guilty of it. In the last few years I have sold over 20 guns that at one time I "needed". All were good guns, some were shot very little, some not at all, none were really needed.

    One last thought. Give some thought to a .30/30 lever action. For sustained fire it will be faster than a bolt gun, brass is easy to get and it will deliver about as much ballistics with cast as most mil-surps. It can be topped up during lulls in firing without the need for magazines or stripper clips. It does not yell tacti-cool, or militia, but it is a decent "assault" rifle and it is easy to carry/handle. It is about as accurate as most mil-surps as well. I have three of them LOL. The bulk of my "cheap" rifle shooting is done with .357 lever actions. It is nice to run hundreds of rounds at a time on a progressive and use a few grains of pistol/shotgun powder per round.

    Good luck with your quest!
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    gardners pa.
    Posts
    2,509
    even though I have 6 .303s I would shay away from one because brass can be hard to get plus they can be hard on brass. I would say a 8mm mauser a 7.64 mauser 03 springfield 1917 enfieldone of the indian enfields in .308. I have and shoot all of them with cast .

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    827
    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetualStudent View Post
    I honestly hadn't realized that the savage can get down to <300, depending on sales. Though oddly, in WI armslist at least, used savages are about as expensive as used 8mm Mauser.

    My leaning towards milsurp is 2 fold.
    1. Watching the .303 rifles come down in price I was/am hopeful that people who don't cast and form their own brass will get rid of good guns because no cheap ammo. While casting can keep it in business longer 2. I do trust the milsurp to stand up to sustained fire (God forbid it becomes necessary) better than an entry level hunting rifle. If I didn't have in the back of my mind, "If I ever need..." I'd probably just start looking for a savage.

    I appreciate all the replies and information. I'm also a big believer that fit is king so I'll start peering down bores and hefting rifles to see if I find one that feels good for the right price. And I'll make sure to heft a savage or two as well.
    I just went to RKguns.. savage axis in range from 243-6.5 creedmoore to 30-06 for 300$ no sale, and 350$ scoped. no sale. Sales come along often.. and I know I have seen that gun for 259$

    Mossberg patriot bolt rifles are regularly 275$ not on sale, as well.

    Mossberg 4x4 are 257$ on sale, and thompson /center/compass 30-06 are 285$ on sale

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    MI (summer) - AZ (winter)
    Posts
    2,909
    I have no dog in this fight as I'm sure there are lots of different milsurp rifles out there that would fit the bill for what yo are looking for.

    I've owned probably 3 or 4 8 X 57 Mausers through the years. They were great deer guns. The only reason I'm adding anything to this is to also state that the only thing I shoot now out of the only Mauser I have left - a GEW98 - 1907 Danzig - are "cat sneeze" loads. I have a NOE mold that is a .326 (my bore is .323) that throws a 130ish grain flat nose boolit. Over about 8 grains of Red Dot it is a great plinker and lays them right in there at 50 yards. I was limited to 50 yards so don't know about 100 yards but I think it would do very well at that range as well.

    My point - a 8 X 57 Mauser has a lot to offer in terms of light loads for plinking and as far as standard loads for taking deer, etc. The plus is that you can easily refer 30-06 brass to 8mm if you can't find the 8mm brass at times. A "plus plus".

    But, a 30-06 rifle should offer the same things and brass is easy to come by and lots of molds out there to play with as well.

    While I've owned probably a half dozen .303 Enfields, I never shot any of them so can't speak to them.

    I'm an old fart and when I was younger, a Nagant was considered a "junk rifle". No offense to anyone who enjoys them. That's just the way it was but then they only cost around $18 or so at the time - a far cry from today but then a whole different generation as well. The same with the Arisaka, but then most of the "prejudice" against them was voiced in my day by those that had been on the receiving end of them in the Pacific. Today, it's a different story and they have many fans.

    While price may be an issue for the rifle, I would probably (myself) look at the availability of brass and the variety of available molds along with what I wanted to do with it to help make a decision. Whatever you end up with you'll have lots of fun working out loads and boolits and that's all part of the fun! Good luck!

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    827
    A nagant wouldn't be my choice for a deer rifle, unless it was a sniper/ex sniper, fin, or one checked and had a tight bore. I've seen too many nagants made during war tin expediency that had large side of generous spec bores. They were a great gun to mass produce and put in the hands of a multitude of unwashed, untrained masses, and be servicable for 50-70 years and 3+ wars... In a pinch, the ling 1891 & long pointy bayonets make a great emergency spear.

    For a 50 yard hog/ brush gun? ( shorty M38 ) Sure, couldn't miss with a smooth bore at that range, and the muzzle flash and report will momentarily stun the porcine anyway

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    5,013
    Coming late to the discussion. I have owned and shot with cast just about all the rifles mentioned, except the K31.

    If I were to boil it down to one rifle for cast, hunting, target and utility, it would be the 03A3 Springfield, with a clean US M1917 coming in a strong second choice. The .30-'06 is never a mistake,
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

    alamogunr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,058
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    PS,

    When I suggested the Savage, it is not because I own one. I nearly bought one but decided the Howa was a better gun and I found one on sale at a price I could not walk away from. I still think the Savage is one of the best buys out there.

    I am an old man. I remember when years ago the mil-surps had their place, but the price was right (.303's were going for $15 and M98's for $50 back then!). Most are not easy to scope, and the triggers are not good. Brass for some is not cheap. They are heavy etc etc. Not much appeal unless the nostalgia factor is important to you.

    I doubt a modern gun will give you any issues with "sustained fire". A bolt gun is not the best choice in that scenario anyway, but that is a different topic.

    BTW, a couple of years ago I bought a new HB Model 700 for under $400 during a Black Friday sale. It was the basis for my "sniper" rifle. Keep on the lookout at places like CDNN for good deals on new guns.

    Cold hard logic is conspicuously absent from most gun purchases. I know...I am guilty of it. In the last few years I have sold over 20 guns that at one time I "needed". All were good guns, some were shot very little, some not at all, none were really needed.

    One last thought. Give some thought to a .30/30 lever action. For sustained fire it will be faster than a bolt gun, brass is easy to get and it will deliver about as much ballistics with cast as most mil-surps. It can be topped up during lulls in firing without the need for magazines or stripper clips. It does not yell tacti-cool, or militia, but it is a decent "assault" rifle and it is easy to carry/handle. It is about as accurate as most mil-surps as well. I have three of them LOL. The bulk of my "cheap" rifle shooting is done with .357 lever actions. It is nice to run hundreds of rounds at a time on a progressive and use a few grains of pistol/shotgun powder per round.

    Good luck with your quest!
    I believe it was Frank Marshall in The Fouling Shot that referred to the lever action rifle as the Appalachian Assault Rifle.
    John
    W.TN

  10. #30
    Boolit Master


    mac60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    Posts
    783
    Generally, I'm not seeing the prices for any milsurp rifles coming down. Look what Classic firearms is listing No. 4 mkI rifles for.

    https://www.classicfirearms.com/enfi...k1-bolt-action

    The last Mosin 91/30 I bought - I paid $79.95 for. Look what J&G is listing Mosin 91/30 rifles for.

    http://www.jgsales.com/mosin-nagant-...-p-100661.html

    The last Vz24 I bought - I paid $179.95 for. J&G again.

    http://www.jgsales.com/mosin-nagant-...-p-100661.html

    I'm just not seeing the prices on milsurps going down at all.
    So many guns, so little time
    _____________________________

    You must pay for everything in this life - nothing is free, except for the grace of God.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    827
    Agreed... I used to buy Turk mausers for 40$, now... A savage axis is cheaper than a good+ m38

  12. #32
    Boolit Master


    mac60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    Posts
    783
    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    Agreed... I used to buy Turk mausers for 40$, now... A savage axis is cheaper than a good+ m38


    Ah - those were the days. 5 fers $150.
    So many guns, so little time
    _____________________________

    You must pay for everything in this life - nothing is free, except for the grace of God.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    827
    Yup, mosins too

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Grapevine Texas
    Posts
    498
    I would think that any of the old black powder cartridge guns were the best for cast bullets. Mainly because they used lead bullets with no jackets. So casting bullets and using them would be no problem. Plus there are many different examples and calibers to choose from too. The 11mm Mauser, .43 Egyptian, 45-70, etc. But in the 1880's on to the early 1900's there were quite a few different kinds of rifles around 8mm caliber that worked pretty good with cast bullets and black powder too. The old 8mm Steyr using the 7.92x57 cartridge is one example or the 8mm Kropaschek is another.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    827
    Its been mentioned a few times, but 45-70 is fun ti shoot, you can load it down if wanted with trail boss or others, and its super easy with cast lead.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    346
    I will put my vote for Yugoslavian Mauser with the best bore you can find. It really doesn't mater what variation. They are fairly affordable, and 8mm brass is not too expensive.You can also fashion it from 30-06 brass.

    If you can actually see and compare bore conditions and the way the crown looks, Turkish Mausers are also a good value.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Brushy Mountains of NC
    Posts
    589
    I looked at the Mauser page on the J&G site, the prices are unbelievable. Are these rifles really selling at this price ? A plain old used Enfield at $700 is unreal, not long ago one in the wrap didn't bring that much. I really suspect that they are fishing.

    If this is the case a Savage Axis looks pretty good even if they are uuugly. I am sure they shoot good and would outlast me.

    Dave

  18. #38
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    97
    There seems to a collectables craze sweeping the nation.If you think gun prices are steep,hows a $1000 for a old Harley headlight grab ya......on ebay.Or $1000 for a weathered speedo ,or $400 for a pressed tin toolbox.Enough of that,whatever you buy for cast make sure it has a mint barrel.Im also inclined to recomend 8mm,cause its easier to have success with cast in a bigger bore.Add the two,Yugo Mauser.The Mauser type rifling works better with cast than 5 groove enfield.If I had my druthers,Id pick 8mm in a 30" barrel.One gun that fits and doesnt bring much is the Portugese 8mm.Vergeuro.Usually in nice condition,no interest to Mauser types,usually cheap.

  19. #39
    Boolit Man fa38's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    132
    03A3 Remington because of the rear sight and long neck on the 30-06.
    Next would be South American Mausers in 7x57. Smaller case and a long neck.
    Member of: ASSRA, Cast Bullet Assoc., Van Dyne Sportsmen's club, NRA, IHMSA

    Interests: Shooting single shot rifles and old military rifles with cast bullets.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check