meplat with square or rounded edges

[Oklahoma Rebel]

this is about 35/9.3 boolits. if you have two boolits with a .22 meplat, and a shallow ogive, which is better for hunting/expansion? a meplat with square edges, or a maplat with rounded corners, keeping in mind that they both have a .22 flat so the rounded one would be a bit wider, but would the one with square corners be better? seems like it would "cut" more blood vessels and be less prone to veering after hitting a bone. keep in mind the rounded corners I am talking about are .05 radius or so, pretty small. I figure it would have an advantage as far as cartridge feeding. thanks a lot, hope that all made sense

[jcren]

Not sure on your bullet, but Elmer's theory that a swc shoulder would cut has been disproved as in testing the shoulder would be rounded off after passing through a piece of leather. I would stick with the smoother feeding rounded shoulder.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

true, and it should help aerodynamics, just a little bit. any one else have any theories?

[ammohead]

Veral Smith is a proponent of the flat meplat with sharp corners. He asserts that the meplat displaces tissue perpendicular to the travel of the bullet in a violent manner that damages more tissue creating a wider wound channel than the diameter of the boolits themselves. This damage takes place even with no expansion of the boolits. The wider the meplat and sharper the corner the more tissue is displaced.

[Blackwater]

More conventional cast bullets and WFN types are two very different type bullets. Veral's babies are cast very hard, so as to cut instead of tear flesh, as most other bullet types tend to do to greater or lesser degrees. 44man once posted his observation that blood vessels tend to bleed more profusely when cut rather than stretched out until they break. It's sort of like pulling a soft plastic tube. By the time it breaks, its diameter has been so reduced by elongating before breaking, that it cannot possibly pass nearly as much fluid as if cut by a harder, sharper force - i.e. being cut.

However, my observation and that of many others' is that bullet placement is, has always been, and likely always will be, THE primary factor in killing an animal cleanly and humanely and honorably. As an extreme example of this, I'd have to cite the old African hunters who often couldn't GET any other ammo but FMJ military style stuff, but if they placed their shots well, their tracking wasn't often a long task.

Don't get me wrong here! I'm all for quicker kills, and sometimes, feeding DOES factor into the equation. If it does, just go with what works in YOUR gun. To do otherwise would not be fully rational. Nor would it be good for the game, either. If a gun doesn't feed, and you need a 2nd shot, bobbling feeding CAN cause your 2nd shot to be worse than the 1st, thereby making for a poor experience that day.

Hunting loads encompass a number of criteria, ALL of which can be important. But the main thing will always be to hit them in the right place. Knowing your quarry's anatomy is essential for that, and the best way to learn that is to hang around the cleaning/skinning/butchering shack. Better yet, get your hands bloody and do it yourself. There's no better way to learn what a hunter really, really needs to know.

In practice, I cannot believe that there'd be any really notable difference between the two factors as you describe them. There's a lot more in play than that. Bullet hardness (at the velocity you're shooting) would tend to be much more of a factor, along with bullet placement. Really, there's no need and very little benefit from over-thinking things or expecting some minor change to yield very significantly improved kills. Just MHO, based on a good bit of experience, of course. FWIW?

[white eagle]

well said
placement as said before is the key
makes little difference if its rounded or flat
if it misses the spot neither one work

[Oklahoma Rebel]

good info! thanks a lot, I didn't think it would make a huge difference, but I had previously read about the cutting vs. tearing of vessels, but with a good flat meplat and a soft ( for the velocity) boolit going 2200fps, I think very slightly rounded corners will probably not matter. you answered my questions! have a good'un-Travis

[runfiverun]

if your speaking entirely of terminal performance and straight line penetration I like square flat.
if your speaking of flight characteristics I'm okay with some rounding of the meplat edge it will transverse up and down through the sub/supersonic waves easier.

[DougGuy]

Veral also subscribed to a treminal velocity to go along with those sharp corners and flat meplats. Too fast and it pushes tissue away in a pressure wave, only to close back up behind the boolit, too slow and it doesn't push enough and lacks penetration.

I use the Lee RF and the LBT WFN boolit styles which are both fairly sharp cornered and so far nothing has got away from either one but these are 44 and 45 caliber revolvers and not a 35 caliber rifle. For these boolits, it seems like 1180~1200fps is a magical number when it hits hide for terminal damage.

[Shopdog]

I varmint hunt with a 22-250,243,7-08....some of rigs have never seen a JB,as,not even on the loading bench,much less down their barrels,haha.

Thin skin,mostly crows,velocities right around 2500.

Noticeable difference with square,to the point of almost "sharp" meplat and anything,not.The square is the easy winner here.95% of my loads are run up through the mags if these bolt guns.It's just a little more challenging to set'm up that way.There's a lot going on with a CB being jacked up through the cycle.Can't put too much preconceptions on it.The angle of the case that's what I call the pickup angle,and the speed/dexterity on the shooter's end....bullet fit,feed ramp,OAL,yadayada.And depending on the nose profile(most of my moulds are bore riders),just makes generalizations,iffy.

So,square/sharp meplat....a tuned for feeding cartridge.....just the right "flick" on a turnbolt.....and getting up in a higher load node,will see varmints being "chunked".That is,a chunk over here,a chunk over.....you get the idea.And darn impressive compared to JB's honestly.

On larger game,shot angle and placement pretty much trump most things withCB's.Assumed good mass weight to begin with,and retained with.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I am talking about 9.3mm 285gr cb's.the whole reason I am considering rounding off the edges is to avoid loading trouble, the boolit will put the cartridge at 3.161, with a saami oal of 3.291, would you guys call that close, or adequate leftover room?because I would rather have a completely flat nose, even if I have to have the gunsmith do a little feed ramp work, I could load single shot until then

[ammohead]

OK Reb,

Which 9.3 are you loading for? Lately I have been playing with a Husqy model 98 in 9.3x62 and a German manufacture 9.3x57 by Franz Schmidt. Fun projects both. The Husqy loves the Noe 280, and the 9.3x57 is being cantankerous but I am not giving up yet.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

cz550fs, any experience with them?

[500Linebaughbuck]

wfn and lfn is great for a rifle.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

so you see no need in worrying about feeding issues with the flat .22 meplat? I guess if you think about it that's still fairly small in comparison to the overall diameter, an approximately 60% meplat.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

does the noe extend past the case neck when loaded for your husky? and what is your overall loaded case length if you don't mind?

[ammohead]

COAL is 3.255". That puts the transition from bore ride nose dia to full diameter .220 out of the case neck and a good portion of the lube groove exposed.

[MT Gianni]

0.220 meplate on a 9.3 is nearer to 55% than 70%. If you want to use the benefit of the cartridge as designed i would go for a 70% meplate or even an 80%. 0.270 should be enough of a difference that the edges won't matter.

[Piedmont]

If the bullet expands it doesn't matter. That trumps meplat differences every time. Since it is easy to make a cast rifle bullet expand, to me it makes more sense to make sure you have a %100 feeder. Then tweak the alloy and velocity.

[5Shot]

I tried some (IIRC) 220 grain 0.358 slugs from one of Veral's molds, and it wouldn't feed in my rifle worth a turd. Great looking bullet, but useless to me. I was given or purchased many different styles of cast bullets from members here until I found one that did feed. It went in like butter, so when I drew up another for the rifle, it had the exact same nose profile. It is pretty round up front (although the Meplat has a square edge), but at least I can use it.

A member here sent me a bunch of these to try: