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Thread: meplat with square or rounded edges

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    5 shot, does your rifle have a ramp that the nose rides up into the chamber or no?
    Norinco SKS
    mosin nagant est 1937
    S&W 15-2 combat masterpiece
    Remington 597 22lr w/30 rnd clip
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  2. #22
    Boolit Master 5Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma Rebel View Post
    5 shot, does your rifle have a ramp that the nose rides up into the chamber or no?
    Mine is a Remington 721, and there is a bit of a ramp milled at the front of the magazine.
    If you live on the razor's edge and slip, you will die in two pieces

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    I saw a video of the CZ550fs, but instead of the 9.3X62 it was a 30-06 ( very similar, basically a 30-06 necked up to .366) but in the video they luckily did a close up of them loading a cartridge from the mag, and it had a very generous, smooth feed ramp, so I am hoping the 9.3 does too, I don't see why it wouldn't because both cartidges end up being about the same length, depending on the boolit of course.
    Norinco SKS
    mosin nagant est 1937
    S&W 15-2 combat masterpiece
    Remington 597 22lr w/30 rnd clip
    12ga NEF single shot
    heritage 22lr/22mag

  4. #24
    Gents,

    This interesting thread brings to mind a related topic that, over the years, has repeatedly caused me to question the validity of some long-held, historical "common-sense" beliefs about cast-bullet lethality.

    One such historical quandary that has concerned me is: Who was correct, the U.S. Army or the British military in their divergent beliefs regarding the man-killing effectiveness of .38 caliber revolver bullets?

    The U.S. military at the turn of the Twentieth Century, based on its sad battle experiences in the Philippine Insurrection, concluded that the .38 Long Colt cartridge -- firing a 150-grain round-nosed bullet at near 800 fps -- was such poor man-stopper that a significantly larger caliber was desperately needed. This situation lead to the U.S. military's adoption of the .45 ACP cartridge in 1911, resulting in about 70 years worth of apparently well-satisfied American G.I's.

    Yet, strangely, within a couple decades of the U.S. switch-over, the British military drew precisely the opposite conclusion regarding its' tried-and-true .455 Webley revolver. The Brits decided their ol' .45 was more gun than was needed, and they quite happily reverted to a heavy-bullet version of the then near-half-century-old .38 S&W cartridge -- a round with significantly less "snot" than the reviled .38 Long Colt.

    In standard loadings, the .38 S&W fired a 145-grain bullet at a sedate 680 fps or so. Its' bullet was five grains lighter, and traveled more than 100 fps slower, than the cashiered .38 Long Colt round. And, velocity of the British .38 load was lowered even further by their adoption of heavier bullet -- a bluntly round-nosed 200-grain slug chugging along at something like 600 fps or so.

    Yet, historians record that the Brits felt their choice was correct, that their sluggish little .38 proved to be a viable man-stopper.

    Were the British fighting weaker, less virile enemies than the U.S. military faced? How could the U.S. military conclude the .38 was a pathetically inadequate fighting cartridge, while the British decided that an even "softer-shooting" .38 caliber cartridge was a worthy successor to their battle-tried .455 Webley?

    Maybe the riddle revolves around the differing terminal effects of two similar, yet perhaps significantly different .38 caliber slugs. Could it be that a bluntly round-nosed 200-grain bullet at 600 fps possessed greater "wounding potential" than a bullet of nearly the same diameter but 50 grains lighter and traveling 200 fps faster?

    Our "modern" ballistic outlook conditions us to view increased velocity as increased killing power, but is this necessarily so? Might a lower-velocity bullet of slightly different nose shape actually have superior wounding potential than a somewhat faster, lighter slug?

    Maybe the Brits' blunter, slower, heavier .38 bullet was tumbling on impact with flesh, thus tearing a nastier wound than a lighter, faster bullet which might typically just poke a smooth hole in an adversary.

    Maybe rotational stability, or lack thereof, played a role in the seemingly different terminal effects of the two .38 caliber cartridges. Might a slower, heavier, thus less stable (given similar rifling twist-rate) bullet have a greater likelihood to tumble end-over-end upon contacting flesh than a lighter, faster, better stabilized bullet?

    Might we be flat wrong in the assumption that faster is always deadlier?

    Anyway, the seeming quandary has perplexed me for decades. I'm hoping somebody -- maybe our esteemed Outpost 75 -- can shed some light on this historical ballistic riddle. The answer might have significant bearing on our understanding of cast bullet lethality.

    Happy trails,

    -- Cary Gunn --
    Last edited by Cary Gunn; 11-09-2017 at 08:57 PM.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
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    OK Rebel and I have carried on a lengthy discussion of this subject. I designed a bullet on the Mountain Molds design software of 270 grains nominal weight with gas check shank and 70% meplat with sharp edges. With the bullet seated to kiss the rifling leade, it shoots VERY accurately to 200 yards.......but will on occasion hang up while feeding cartridges from the magazine's left side. I have not yet messed around with deeper seating in an attempt to resolve the matter--I suspect that an OAL adjustment will remedy the matter, but until that gets tested and confirmed just be mindful of that potential glitch. I do have 20 rounds loaded and ready for hunting currently--Bruce B Softpoints atop 50.0 grains of IMR-4320 for about 2150 FPS. This season and 2018 will be the end of lead-bullet hunting in this North Korea with date palms and citrus groves, so the vigor for load work isn't there any more. Hunting will get done with Barnes or other bullets. Utter unjustified idiocy, but these are the small tyrannies inflicted by unchecked social justice/enviro-fascist groupthink.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Can you cast with zinc?
    NRA Endowment Member

    Just because a handful of people on the Internet share an opinion doesn't prove it is correct.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkins45 View Post
    Can you cast with zinc?
    I honestly don't know. At present it is outside my experience, my only response to zinc alloys has been to AVOID THEM due to their contamination potential in lead alloys.

    As a practical matter, the Barnes TSX and TTSX are a handy and efficient resolution to the CA hunting problem. The only downside to the copper critters is their cost, and so far (in 30-06 and 6.5 x 55) they have not shot quite as accurately as Nosler Partitions or Ballistic Tips. Groups run about half-again larger. I can live with that. As game-takers, the Barnes bullets WORK.

    I am currently assembling 50 each of 223 and 22-250 rounds with Nosler Lead-Free Ballistic Tips of 40 grains in weight. These are priced right with lead-core BTs and are built for rat-whacking. It remains to be seen how well they will shoot.

    Will I stop casting bullets? Of course not. These idiot regs oblige you to bifurcate your load development somewhat--hunting load and target load work-up was once a parallel course for me, and CA forces a hunter to live in 2 worlds--Target World and Hunting World, as far as ammo development is concerned. The other option is to cease hunting in CA......not happening. Make up your stilted, arbitrary rules concerning hunting and fishing activities in this place, and look on as your license fee dollars dry up and game warden positions remain unfilled due to funding shortfalls. It is glaringly obvious that CA wants no part of having people like me reside here, and if we can make it happen we will emigrate back to the USA at the earliest possible moment. But for now, I will remain the largest possible PITA for these hoplophobic, tree-hugging, refried Bolshevik airheads who run this Pyongyang off-site colony.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    I truly am sorry for you, thank you for all your kind wisdom and patience-Travis
    Norinco SKS
    mosin nagant est 1937
    S&W 15-2 combat masterpiece
    Remington 597 22lr w/30 rnd clip
    12ga NEF single shot
    heritage 22lr/22mag

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
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    9.3X62AL, come on over to Arizona! We've got good hunting and plenty of room!
    if it doesn't fit, don't force it. Get a BIGGER HAMMER!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check