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Thread: Optimum Twists By Diameter

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by kens View Post
    I'm not quite sure about that.
    Please tell me where to buy such a barrel as to need more velocity to stabilize a RB.
    I shoot a 1:66 .45 rifle, and I do not need velocity to stabilize it. Is there a .45 barrel available that is slower than 1:66? I thought I already had the slowest available? and it shoots just fine
    To get a slower twist in 45 you would probably have to special order the barrel or even have one custom made. barrel makers can make just about anything you want. Sam Fadala talks about twist rates in his books and speaks of one that is 1-144. It is a 14 ga. but the question was asked in general terms and not specific to any one caliber. I have also heard from other shooters with very slow twist guns of 1-96 or more but don't recall the caliber. Going slower for a 45 may not be practical. The slower twist guns generally use a heavier RB which would work better for your really long distances to retain energy and wind would effect it less.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldracer View Post
    The post by Kens is what my mentor told me for round balls. The twist rate can always be faster since the object going down the barrel is a ball. If you start elongating what you are shooting then things get much more complicated. My 50 caliber Douglas stainless XX barrel is 1 in 48 and both round balls and Mini's shoot exactly the same at 100 and 200 yards using 80 grains FFG!
    Can you be more specific about that .50cal 1:48 twist, please.
    you say it shoots the same with balls & minies, but you did not specify if it shoots TIGHT groups.
    I also have a .50cal 1:48, and I find it does not shoot TIGHT groups. It is too fast for round balls, and too slow for conicals, that is, it also shoots both projectiles the SAME.
    Both are lousy.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post
    Forsyth came up with the idea of a large bore with slow twist and lots of powder. Twist was 1/4 turn in the length of the barrel. Problem is it takes a lot of powder to get it to shoot, maybe 200 grains in a 58 cal. Rifling had wide grooves and narrow lands.
    I built a rifle with Forsyth rifling about 40 years ago. The boys at the old Sharon shop cut me a .62 with 1-120 twist. Quite accurate, killed at both ends. Rifle weighed 7.5#, and I was at 160 gr. 3fff before it would perform.
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  4. #24
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    Sorry I wasn't clearer with the 1 in 48 twist barrel. At 100 yards it will put 5 round balls or TC mini's in their own hole. Two weeks ago I was shooting with another fellow watching my hits as I was too lazy to mount my large scope. I would shoot the 1st shot and then with the second one he said "heck that went off the paper"! About that time we had a cease fire so we walked out to see what the deal was and he got there first and hollered back to me "John they are in one large hole". Sure surprised me! The barrel was made for a fellow in WI by Douglas and it is a 36 inch long XX with shallow groves and a member on here sold the rifle to me and I made a new stock for it. I am using a Unertl 15 power scope on it. Both loads are the same, 80 grains of Goex FFG, 0.490 ball, pillow ticking with spit for lube. The mini just sits on the powder with Bore Butter lube, very slight seating of the mini.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    I built a rifle with Forsyth rifling about 40 years ago. The boys at the old Sharon shop cut me a .62 with 1-120 twist. Quite accurate, killed at both ends. Rifle weighed 7.5#, and I was at 160 gr. 3fff before it would perform.
    Now you understand why they aren't a big seller. Most shooters are afraid to pull the trigger on a second shot. I still have a couple barrels sitting on the shelf that were returned because the shooter said he could not hit the target. I'm not good with recoil but I did shoot one of the barrels with 120 grains and it was about 4" at 100 yards.

  6. #26
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    Kens
    Just curious if .32 1:48 twist is good why did TC go with 1:30 in their .32 caliber Cherokee and 1:48 in all other calibers they must have done some research before choosing those twists and they must work pretty good if you look at what they sell for these days. Like I said just curious
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shdwlkr View Post
    Kens "why did TC go with 1:30 in their .32 caliber Cherokee and 1:48 in all other calibers they must have done some research before choosing those twists
    Thompson Center marketed .32 "Maxi-balls" along with their .32 caliber Cherokee rifles. I have a couple of the original boxes. They are about .60 in length and weigh 103 grains. I suspect that T/C recognized the need for a faster twist to accurately shoot these slugs. The 100+ grain slug really ratchets up the effectiveness of the little .32 on game a little bigger than squirrels

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shdwlkr View Post
    Kens
    Just curious if .32 1:48 twist is good why did TC go with 1:30 in their .32 caliber Cherokee and 1:48 in all other calibers they must have done some research before choosing those twists and they must work pretty good if you look at what they sell for these days. Like I said just curious
    the OP asked about optimum twist for round balls.
    I cannot speak for any maker of mass-produced guns. I can speak however about round ball guns that shoot optimum groups. My earlier post about twist rates was posted as optimum, because empirical data has been collected over 150 years of shooting. when I was at the height of my shooting, .45cal 1:66 got the job done in a custom rifle. About that time, the mass produced muzzle loaders were just coming onto the market. they had a wide variety of bores, barrels, and twists. God only knows where they sourced their barrels. I can say that none of them won much contests. I can also say that the barrels that did all the winning, were Douglas at the time, and Green mountain came in a bit later, and ALL of them were slow twist such as 1:66 or similar. I would have to say they 'they did their research'. That is the twist rates I posted above.
    For some unknown reason all the good barrels were of deep grooves. The shallow groove barrels just didnt seem to keep up with the deep grooves, even tho similar twist.
    I don't know all the phsyics and math on that, I just remembered how it all went down. Other guys had guns of fast twist, shallow grooves, everything in between, but the slow twist/deep groove was the barrel to beat.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    FWIW, Lyman Great Plains rifles, .50cal

    Round ball gun. 1/66 twist .502 bore .520 groove

    Bullet gun. 1/32 twist .502 bore .510 groove

    I can shoot round ball in my fast twist barrel, but, they are not one hole accuracy and it takes a reduced load. 30-40gn is about all it will take before the groups open up. It is more sensitive to patches due to the shallow grooves.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Okay here we go, how about the rounded rifling such as that by Colerain? Both my "long rifles" have barrels with the rounded rifling and they are quite amazing! They are the only rifle except for the one Roger Johnson made that have shot perfect scores in our monthly matches! They have a shallow groove and 1 in 56 twist rate.

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub RonT's Avatar
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    Bill Large made at least one at 1:42 twist, .45 cal., does fairly well with a .441 (Dental Lead) and 60 gr. ffg.
    Cheers,
    R
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