Anybody loading cast in a Savage MDL 11 in .308 Winchester?

[Shuz]

I've been trying to develop a load combo for my Savage Mdl 11, that would be at least competitive in local CBA matches.
Experiments with the NOE 311-202FN have been puzzeling. I'll get a decent 1.1" 5 shot group at 100 yards with 16g of 2400, and the next 5 shots will be 3" or more! Alloy is 10:1 (WW:lino),either quench cast or heat treated to Bhn 22. I've tried .310 sized and .311 sized boolits. I detected a very few specks of lead when I run a patch thru the bbl. I got more specks with .311 than I did with .310. I'm next gonna try .309 boolits. I have to use a .308 sizer due to spring back on this hard alloy on boolits that drop .312 or better. I miked the bore riding portion of this design and it measures .302. Is this the cause of the slight lead specks? Perhaps I'm not driving these fast enuf to stabilize all the time? Velocity is measured at 1550 fps. Suggestions?

[Old colt]

I'm using the noe 188 with we plus a small amount of tin in my axis in front of a mid range unique load that would run close to the same velocity, it has a 1-10 twist and holds around 1 1/2 inch group. Could try to tumble lubing after lube sizing to see if that helps with the bore riding portion. Are you using a gas check on these?

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[waco]

22BHN is not needed for rifle rounds going 1550fps. I suspect you are getting some gas blow by. Too hard of a boolit and not enough pressure for that strength of alloy. 10-12BHN would do just fine. I would still size to .311"
What lube are you using? Is this a gas check mold? A .302" nose should be okay.

[longbow]

What's your rifling twist?

My .308 and a friend's Savage lever .308 liked my 31141's (170 gr. FP) a lot. I used 22 grs. IMR4227 with good results. Mine were shot as cast at 0.310" in 0.308" groove and gas checked with Lyman checks.

My gun is 1:12" twist. Not sure what the Savage runs.

No leading, no problems, good accuracy.

If your's is 1:12" twist the 202 gr. might be a bit long for stability. Try a 170 or 180 gr. boolit to see if groups tighten up.

On boolit hardness, I ran into an issue with my .303's with 1:10" twist using 202 gr. 316299's ~ "skidding" or at least swaging large grooves into the boolits. That was with ACWW but using oven heat treated boolits that problem went away.

I figured that out by examining recovered boolits. Rifling in the guns is even land and groove width but in recovered boolits the grooves were noticeably wider than lands and there was gas cutting in the grooves. Harder boolits didn't skid and no gas cutting. Recovered boolits always have a story to tell.

Longbow

[tomme boy]

Shoot a couple thousand rounds of jacketed in the Savage and MAYBE the barrel will smooth up enough to not tear the bullets. Savage has one of the worst barrels out there on being rough on the interior. Or get a lapping kit and fire them to smooth up the barrel.

While Savages shoot well, they can be improved. My 223 would tear patches to shreds when it was new. It took over 1500 rounds before it stopped doing that and was smooth enough. It fouled so bad after 30 rds it had to be cleaned down to bare metal again. Used up several cans of the foaming bore cleaner on that gun. Now I can go about 300 rds before it needs a normal cleaning.

[Shuz]

The boolits I've used have all had Hornady gas checks applied. The bore does not seem rough, as a patch will go thru without grabbing.
I'll check the twist, but I was assuming it is 1:10. Other designs that I have are: NOE 311-165, RCBS 30-150, RCBS 30-165SIL, Lyman 311291,Lyman 311466. When I first got the rifle, I tried the NOE 311-165,sized to .311, and experienced the same issue...an occasional good group and then things went south,but very minor leading, just specks on a patch that you have to hold in the sunlight to see. Perhaps the bore is rough?
I have used various lubes in my testing and the last used was the old NRA formula of 50:50 Beeswax and ALOX.
By the way, I have a 36X scope mounted on this rifle, so visionary issues should be reduced.
Thanks for the suggestions, we'll keep trying!

I just checked the Savage site and the twist rate is 1:10

[Bama]

I shoot powder coated bullets in my savage with no issues. Fit and alignment are the keys to accurate loads in 308 W. I use gas checks and tumble coat (shake and bake) bullets. Not a bad way to go! A lot of good threads in " Coatings and Alternatives section.

[Shuz]

Yesterday I fired some more groups with the NOE 311-165FN and the RCBS 30-150FN. The Noe would give a decent 1-1/2" group and then things went south. Still did not find any lead specks on a patch. I tried both .308 diam and .309 diam. I only had 15 of the RCBS 30-150's loaded up, but these showed promise. After the first group that wasn't too bad and developed a "wash" (so they say), I got two groups in a row that were an 1" or less. A big difference between the NOE 311-165 and the RCBS 30-150FN was the bore riding portion on the RCBS was .299 and the NOE's were .301-302. I did also detect slight "patch grab" where the roll marking is on the bbl. Perhaps this is the "issue" that contributes to the inconsistent groups? I'm gonna see if I have some J-B paste or jeweler's rouge to lap the bore with, and see if that helps.

[popper]

RCBS 30-150FN sure isn't a bore rider in the pic, not even a FN. I size my 308 to 310, I suspect the 311 is way too large. I do shoot a hard alloy much faster. Larry Gibson's solution to your problem is to shoot 10 or so and run a couple patches thru. You are getting minor skidding in the lands and with the 311 probably scraping in the throat. My 30/30 does that also with grease lube and 311. The NOE (RD) copy I don't like as the rear band is very thin. Again, per Larry, with grease lube you get a thou. thick grease layer over the boolit (and GC) that will allow gas cutting. I kinda proved his theory using soft alloy with PB 30 & 40 cal with BLL tumble lube. Terrible leading . Same alloy PCd, no leading. Even HiTek on the PB & BLL tumble lubed helped but I only shot a couple rounds at full speed in the BO.
Lubing the nose of the RD may help a little, if you don't already.